Just think about your daily experience and whether you’re outside or on your computer or in the store, you’re constantly bombarded with ads and you know, there’s this blindness that, uh, consumers have where they start to tune it out. So how does AI actually help that to help inform, creating that connection and avoid, uh, wear out, avoid, uh, you know, not being seen and driving the impact that they want?

Retail Unwrapped is a weekly podcast hosted by Shelly Cohan from the Robin Report. Each episode dives into the latest trends and developments in the retail industry. Join them as they discuss interesting topics and interview industry leaders keeping you in the loop with everything retail.

Hi everybody, and thanks for joining our weekly podcast. I’m Shelly Cohan and I’m very excited to welcome a variety of guests today that I was able to talk shop with at the Nielsen IQ 360 Quest for next conference. So we start our lineup with Lisa Holland. She’s the Executive Head enterprise Analytics at Albertson’s Companies, and she’ll give us an in-depth dive into customer lifetime value and how the current retail playbook is broken.

We then hop over and talk to Dan Boner. He’s the Senior Vice President of Retail Media Merchandising, analytics, and Collaborations with N iq, where we’re gonna talk about how the retail media networks of revolution has reached an inflection point where traditional advertising models are being dismantled by data driven precision.

Targeting that fundamental changes how brands connect with Cano consumers throughout their entire purchase journey. We then to a great colleague in our industry, Wendy Lieman. She is the CEO and founder chief Shopper at. WSL strategic retailing, and she will enlighten us on retail innovation. And she’ll also tell us about how the retail industry stands at a critical crossroads, where traditional playbook of competing on price alone has become obsolete, forcing organizations to rediscover the fundamental principles of innovation and human connection that drive sustainable growth.

And finally, we have a delightful conversation with Craig Dki. He is the founder of Happy Coffee, who he co-founded the company with, uh, Robert Downey Jr. Apparently a coffee aficionado Here we’re gonna touch upon emotional brand innovation, startup brand building, and the purpose driven marketing. So let’s get started.

I’m very excited. I have Lisa Holland with me, executive Head Enterprise Analytics at Albertson’s Companies. That’s a huge job. It’s, it’s a, it’s a. There’s, there’s lots of responsibility, but lots of, um, great things that come from the type of role I have for sure. Excellent. Tell me about your role there and what you do.

So my role is, I, I would consider it a bit unique. I haven’t, I’ve worked with a lot of retailers and I haven’t quite seen the design of what our team does and many other retailers. So, um, my team is really, we’re designed to bring deep institutional knowledge of customers in the markets that we compete.

And what that means is we have very seasoned tenured, uh, folks on the team that have different disciplines. So whether it be research or whether it be really deep analytics or understanding the full market landscape. And so when we have all these disciplines together, um, under one umbrella under me, it allows us to look very broad and very deep on what’s happening in our business and what’s happening in the market.

And, um, we really serve to bring that to the business and the business meeting, usually our executive teams. And we’re, we’re here to identify blind spots oftentimes. Mm-hmm. And sometimes where the green shoots of growth are that we should go after more purposefully. Um, and it really is all based on like really understanding who our customers are, what needs are we meeting, how does that look versus competition, and then bringing that perspective to the business every day.

And it’s so interesting because we get now, we just have so much data. Mm-hmm. And a lot of the data comes from different sources. Correct. And you have different functions across the business. And so how do you get this unified, like mm-hmm. Single source of truth. You know, it’s interesting because I think there’s not one data point that is a single source of truth.

Right. It, it really is the culmination of all of that. That, um, allows you to, to have a perspective that’s rooted in many different data sources. So, for example, we can look at our internal data and see patterns and behaviors of shoppers and you know, what we may be seeing inside our four walls. But if you don’t have the context of the market and what else they may be exposed to, what other choices they may have in their consideration set.

And if you don’t understand why or what emotionally they feel like they’re trading off for those experiences, um, you aren’t getting a single source of the truth. It’s the whole human, you know, is how I try to explain it, is we’re looking at their, how they feel, how they shop, how they consume food, where else do they go, um, and then how does that translate into what they’re doing in our stores and why?

So that is really what makes our team unique is that we. We actually use so many different data sources. We, we read industry reports just like anybody else would, but then we also have like the really geeky side of it, which is digging really deep into the data too. So what do you think the opportunities are in the US market?

So, um, we have a lot of density of retail presence, um, all over, right? And I think that even the smallest of retailers, if they’re meeting a unique customer need, can do quite well in the market, for example, you know? Mm-hmm. So sometimes it’s, it’s not necessarily about, you know, who has the most stores, but who’s actually making a promise to customers that they’re standing for.

And they represent that every day and, and what they’re offering. And, um, you can be quite successful. So I think in the us, um. I think what I have observed after all these years is we tend to speak in like generalities or averages or the low income shopper shops. This way, the high income shopper shops this way, gen Z millennials.

And it, it almost, it pains me because that’s not, just because we’re the same age doesn’t mean that we shop the same way that we have the same needs. We look for the same products. Um, and so if, if, if retail is not think is still thinking that way, I think that they’re gonna be misguided and probably miss the mark.

Because you really do have to understand what need are you solving for with which customers. Is that enough to differentiate yourself versus other retailers? Um, and if it’s not, what, where are you gonna place your bets? What are you gonna stand for? So I think that all retailers have to solve for that.

It’s a huge opportunity. But, um, I think in the US we’re. We have a lot of choices. We have a lot of different ways that we’re influenced. You know, I was talking to my daughter who, I mean, she, she’s 25 and her way of shopping and being inspired and recipes like are through social media. Um, you know, that’s so true.

Sometimes, like going to the grocery store is a novelty and it’s like a thing, but it’s not, it’s, it’s very few and far between. So even the way that they get their groceries certainly is different and what influences them looks very different. You mentioned two things that I hear as a theme here at the NIQ conference, and that is the, this emotional connection.

Mm-hmm. So being emotionally connected mm-hmm. And the importance of that physical store mm-hmm. Is just, it’s so more important now than it ever has been. Mm-hmm. I think. Mm-hmm. I agree. I think, um, we, I have said this a couple times, um, inside our four walls, but. I know we’ll talk a little bit about like deep and lasting relationships with customers and where does that, that really, I believe, um, and I can see it in patterns, but loyalty, deep and lasting relationships start in the store.

And when they have a consistent good experience and they feel good when they leave and they feel like they got what they need, what they want, um, at a fair price and all the experiences that they’re, and, and again, that’s gonna look different. It means different things to different people. But, um, if you’re not earning, if you’re not earning their trust there, getting them to trust you in your digital assets or online or in your pharmacy or in any other area that you wanna deepen your relationship with.

It’s not, it, it doesn’t happen unless you earn the trust there first, in my opinion. Do you have any advice that you would give to retailers that are struggling with customer engagement or loyalty? I think that, um, data is extremely powerful. The, you know, there’s a lot of engines and AI and, you know, but, but my advice would be to really take a step back and understand the context, the market, the full picture.

Um, um, there are so many other influences to business performance that I, business is driven by human beings buying stuff, at least in my business. Right. And I know one of the things you asked was like, how do you, how do you pivot from profitable sales to, um, um, long-term loyalty and customer lifetime value?

Yeah, customer lifetime value. I would actually say profitable sales is the desired outcome for everyone. I think that, like, business isn’t gonna survive if, you know, being profitable and driving sales isn’t critical. Right. But. Customer lifetime value is the means and the way to get to profitable sales.

Right? Well, that, that’s the answer that, that’s the pathway of getting there. So, um, if you’re ever wondering why, you know, we’re, why sales aren’t as they are, um, there’s, there are people that are generating that trend for you. And so take a step back and understand that because that’s the pathway. I also love the fact that you probably don’t recognize this, but I’m gonna call it out.

You never once said consumer, you said human beings, right? Shopping in a store. I love that. We’re humans. I know. We’re just people, you know, like, it’s so true. But we’re so, like, you know, we have this mentality where it’s like consumer insights and KPIs and it’s like, is it shopper, is it consumer? Is it, is it customer?

Is it, it’s, it’s all of us. It’s, it’s, it doesn’t matter, you know, that we’re just human beings that have. Needs to feed our families that are trying to do so with, get the best value, with a great quality and great experience, and not be inconvenienced. And we just, I, I would say that, um, we want people to love grocery shopping.

Um, but I would say, and, and I many do. Um, but if we don’t just put our human hat on, um, when we’re, when we’re looking at the business, I mean, that’s what I do for a living. Like, I can be a bit Pollyanna like, thank you, but it’s, I love it. It’s the truth. Yeah. Well, thank you. It’s the pathway to growth in my opinion.

I’m very excited to sit down with Dan Bonner, who’s the senior Vice President, retail Media Merchant Analytics and collaborations at NIQ. So welcome to the podcast. Yeah, thank you for having me, Shelley. It’s interesting you’re tackling one of the most interesting topics that I think we have in our industry, which is retail media networks.

So first, why don’t you tell me a little bit about your role at NIQ and maybe how the merchandise analytics and the collaboration is unique. Yeah. Um, so as you mentioned, I oversee our retail media as well as the analytics and collaboration sites, which are three components that work closely together. So, uh, one of the things that, uh, when talking to Nielsen IQ before joining the company was there’s a lot of solutions, a lot of pieces that we can help partners with, um, from, whether it be from measurement or audience augmentation, audience segmentation.

Creative and just trying to figure out how we help RMNs and how do we help manufacturers think a little bit differently about how they engage with us. So I’ve been thinking a lot over the last five months since I’ve joined is how do those pieces kind of fit and how do they solve some of the problems that we’re seeing with RMNs

Measurement’s a big one that we talk a lot about. I recently spoke with the American Research Foundation. It’s obviously a hot topic about how exactly should we be measuring across RMNs and what does that look like. And then from the merchandising, analytics, and collaboration, that piece is really how we work with our retailers to capture, uh, what they’re seeing in store across both, uh, click and collect online and in store across all of our, uh, retailers that we partner with.

So we, on average, we see about 2.4 trillion transactions on a weekly basis. That’s amazing. Yes. For context, if you take Visa, MasterCard, and Amex and combine them, so they see about 400 billion. So it’s almost six times the size. So synthesizing and harmonizing that data to understand consumer trends, shopping behavior, where things are shifting, and then how can marketers and retailers adopt or adapt.

So you are also delivering a big keynote at the NIQ conference, so can you tell me a little bit about, maybe give, give us like a rundown of what you’re gonna talk about, maybe some key takeaways from that? Yeah. I’m very, um, lucky that we have, um, Nicole Landis, who’s joining us from Amazon to speak on the panel.

AJ from Bayer, who works on, uh, their retail media business as well. Um, we’re focusing on three different areas, measurement, which we’ve already touched on, um, on how we think about measuring success across our retail media partners. And how do you think about that in comparison to what you might be doing with a Google or a Meta and others in the marketplace?

What is the right measurement solution for different uh. You know, as a a manufacturer, what should, what should you be focused on? What kind of outcomes should you be looking at and what you should be measuring against? The other area that we’re gonna explore is collaboration. And the evolution of this is more about how RMNs are working really closely with manufacturers to think about how they help with new product launches, how they help establish brands, how do they build partnerships that actually benefit both.

Um, this isn’t a win like win-lose situation. It’s like how do you create win-win RMNs ultimately, ultimately. And retailers want to move more product, right? They want more sales value. Manufacturers wanna move more of their products. How can they work in tandem to build those partnerships? So it’s not necessarily a negotiation of where you find the middle, but how can you drive velocity across that business and help them stand out?

And the third place that we’ll focus on is on emerging trends. Some of the things that we’ve seen is, you know, in-store media, there’s been a lot of conversation about how do you execute against that? How do you take what we’re doing digitally and actually bring that into the store experience? How do you do that in a way that actually connects with consumers, you know, aisles away versus miles away?

’cause that experience is very different. And then we’ll talk a little bit about what, where AI fits mm-hmm. And how that is, um, from helping Mark helping the consumer, uh, give them more relevant, uh, products that are meaningful to them. So they are more likely to take action all the way down to the creative side.

And thinking about how do you connect with consumers on a creative format that is more likely to get their attention. Uh, there’s data, I just was looking at this morning, the average person sees somewhere around 6,000 ads per day throughout their experiences. That’s amazing. Yeah. And so, I mean, just think about your daily experience and whether you’re outside or on your computer or in the store, you’re constantly bombarded with ads and, you know, there’s this blindness that, uh, consumers have where they start to tune it out.

So how does AI actually help that to help inform, creating that connection and avoid, uh, wear out, avoid, uh, you know, not being seen and driving the impact that they want. And you brought up YouTube, which is, you know, in Scott D’s Yeah. Keynote, uh, conversation at the NIQ conference. You talked about that being the number one most relevant content, uh, marketplace, right?

Yep. Yeah, I mean, YouTube is, um, I mean, listen, I have, uh, 12 and a 13-year-old daughters at home, and it is definitely, uh, like I, I see their consumption behavior and you know, we talk about Netflix being the largest streaming service. The reality is YouTube is the largest streaming service. That’s right. So, and again, like there are these RMNs are now doing these partnerships with the likes of YouTube, the likes of Pinterest, so they can reach consumers across their entire journey, not just within the ecosystem that’s been created by that retailer, going exactly where the consumers are already and delivering that data, uh, fed kind of, uh, behaviors that we can make sure we’re reaching the right people in the right creative environment

That’s great. So what are the big opportunities and untapped markets? What do you see out there that maybe retailers should be thinking about? Uh, I think we are in the early days of this. Um, I know it’s been around for quite a while, but I do think that as more and more RMNs think about how do they merge the digital and physical experience together, how do you create that connective tissue, um, to engage with those consumers?

How do you influence that last minute of buying and how do you do that? In a way, measurement is a piece that’s being worked on. Like there are pieces of that that are, uh, currently in place that is helping with some of that. Um, it’s not exactly that one-to-one that I think marketers have become accustomed to, but I think in store is a place that a lot of marketers are looking at to try to understand like, you know.

If you go back even before our men’s, the power of an end cap, right? Oh. Like, so I grew up in grocery, like my first job was in a grocery store, you know, stocking shelves. And I knew when we brought the pallet out or we did the end cap, like just how much more product that was going to get moved. And that’s what that digital experience is.

It’s driving that velocity inside that store. So I think in-store, um, is definitely something, an area to watch. The other area that, you know, and I have the benefit that I get to talk to a lot of retailers or RMN partners, I also talk to a lot of CPG manufacturers, but thinking about the non-endemic space, so mm-hmm.

We talk about the evolution of retail media. It’s, you know, naturally you’re thinking, well if the product’s available in store, then they’re probably running advertising. But there’s, there’s a lot of power behind that data already that helps, uh, non-endemic. And I’ll give you an example. So from my time at Trade Desk, uh, we had Walmart, obviously data that was being used for the Walmart DSP.

We had an insurance company that came to us and said, Hey, we’re trying to reach people. Uh, they had niche kind of, um, insurance around boating and motorcycles. And because of the, you know, we could see people that were buying products inside Walmart, whether it be boats for the, or battery boats, uh, pieces for their motorcycles, whatever that might be, that became a way to target those consumers and actually reach people that we knew had a high likelihood I guess, of that they would have that, uh, particular vehicle and then we could actually promote and try to get them to switch to this insurance provider.

That’s fascinating. Yeah, and you know, there’s a good example around McDonald’s. You know, they do the Shamrock shake. If you think about consumption inside the store, people buying like the mint chocolate chip ice cream, or buying any kind of mint, you could actually look at that flavor and say, okay, like we know it’s McDonald’s and now we’re into that Shamrock season.

And now I wanna reach people that have all, have that, um, preferred flavor as they think about all the different things that they’re buying in store and using that. So I think non-endemic and is going to be an area that we’ll continue to see retail media extend beyond. Um, you know, one of the things we have at NIQ is to actually help with that with some of the data that we’re bringing from Consumer Canvas.

So we can actually bring that into an RMN to kind of fill potential gaps that they might have. So, you know, that’s one of the solutions. And, and we are, we have been having lots of conversations already working with few RMNs where we actually can take our data and ingest that there and they can start to use that as a way to fill some of the gaps on the data they may not have.

I think. Well you mentioned consumer canvas, I believe you have like 2,700 different attributes. That’s correct. Yeah. That’s amazing. Again, going back to my earlier point where we, how much transaction data we see, and then from our acquisition of MI Simmons, um, all the psychographic date details that we have where we can actually merge purchase data along with that psychographic to help create, um, targeting that is available in Trade Desk that we, uh, announced a couple months ago, or probably a couple weeks ago now.

Um, but that is another way for marketers to tap into that and, uh, get really detailed, um, targeting that’s precision that, that brings to the table. At the end of the day, marketers, they want to drive business outcomes, right? And like the, the. Like how do they move more product? How do they drive incrementality?

How do they drive sales lift, whatever that might be. And so, as I think about what Consumer Canvas does is it’s an ability to tap into our data and drive that business outcome. And, you know, working with, uh, whoever you might be to access the data, they can help inform what targeting is gonna make the most sense.

So what are some of the winning strategies? What are you seeing? What are the big, like, winning strategies for retailers and brands? Yeah, I think, you know, I think, uh, obviously when you’re running campaigns and you’re running, uh, media, you have to identify what truly you wanna measure. Um, and I think if I, again, go back in time, like we talked a lot about return, uh, roas, which is return on ad spend.

So for every dollar that you invest, what do you drive in terms of return? I think, I hope that most marketers now are starting to think about incrementality, right? Like, what’s my true lift? What’s the sales lift that I can actually see across this? The other winning strategy that I would actually merge with that is thinking about when you’re running with RMNs, what are you not just within that closed loop system of what RMN you might be running on, but what is happening outside of that ecosystem?

So, you know, again, like I’ll refer back to my Amazon days, but when 2017 I was working on the grocery team and we knew that for every dollar that was being sold on Amazon, we there was anywhere from three to $10 being bought offsite. Right. Or somewhere else. And it’s naive, I think, for a marketer to think that when you buy an ad from a Dollar General or me or another RMN to think that all of those experiences or all those ads are just driving sales within that single singular retailer.

So I think they need to be able to look at the whole ecosystem in terms of what the impact those media campaigns have. It’s going to disproportionately shift to the RMN based on the data you’re using. Um, but. Really looking at incrementality, sales lift. Um, those are kind of the core metrics. And then there’s other things that you can look like from new to brand and you know, thinking about incrementality and new to brand, you know, RMNs for the most part, they can see their ecosystem.

And I know this is a metric that a lot of people like to talk about, but if you’re working with R and RMM and you’re a manufacturer, when somebody tells you they’re new to brand, you need to be asking yourself, are they new to brand on your RMN or are you are within your retail platform? Or are you actually new to net brand?

Right? Did that person switch from buying it at Kroger to uh, buying it at another retail location? And if they did, they’re not technically new to brand, they just shifted where they bought that experience. So I think about incrementality and then really kind of digging deeper in some of these other metrics.

The other thing, as you think about our RMNs, I think as they started it was really kind of that lower funnel. Um, as you think about how do I drive that last action? I would say the winning strategy is really looking at full funnel. Hmm. How do you reach people, uh, at, you know, if you think about, if con like this concentric circles and you go out, how do you shift people that are buying snacks to better for you snacks to like this bar, right?

Or these bars? And thinking about how you think about those concentric circles and how you engage with them creatively throughout that journey and moving people through that process. So I would, I think about RMNs more, again, going back to my comment earlier, like the media companies and you should be thinking about how you touch, touch them through that whole experience, that consumer to drive the outcomes that you kind of hope for.

Um, the last thing I would say on this area is, you know, and I’ll talk a little bit about the creative piece. Every RMN and every retailer, for the most part, there’s little nuances to that consumer. Um, you think about mass versus grocery versus convenience store or even dollar stores. How you show up creatively needs to truly be unique to that RMN that you’re working with.

And unfortunately, I always feel like the creative’s kind of that last piece, like if we build really good targeting that’ll perform, there is data that’s supported by, you know, I’ve read different research per papers, but anywhere from 30 to 70% of your performance can be driven via creative. So if you are out there and you’re crew building creative for a mass that’s also being applied to a C-store, I think that that’s a strategy that like you need to take a step back and think about the behavior of that consumer.

You know, you just think about how when somebody walks into convenience store, how long are they in the, the store? How quickly can you connect with them versus, you know, when they might be at a mass or a club even, right? So thinking about how you message differently and tailor that, I think it has a big impact on how to create some strategies.

That’s great advice. And I know the creative is what really is what gets that consumer interested in what it is you are presenting to them. Yeah. The creative is what connects, connects it for the customer in their mind. Right? Yep. And we just, we actually just released about a month and a half ago in partnership with Walmart.

We did the art of the cart, and you can find it on their site or you can find it on our website. We did this data, but we actually do narrow feedback. Uh, there’s varying layers of like, um, uh, testing that we can do about, uh, pre-campaign. But in this instance, we actually, uh, people actually attach, you know, their, to their brains kind of, we look at wavelengths and receptives, like how they react, and we look at emotional connection.

And working with Walmart, we were able to see a 54% increase in brand favor, brand memorability, and then a 31% increase in engagement, which we know are leading indicators of sales lift. So if I’m a marketer and I’m thinking. We know the world is, you know, a little bit, you know, week to week we’re kind of operating right now.

And sometimes marketing budgets are fluid in nature. How do you drive a little bigger bang for your buck? Um, how do you take the same money and drive better outcomes? And using that creative, uh, testing beforehand can help you do that. I’m so excited to have Wendy Lieman here today, and you are so experienced in the world of consumerism, consumer shopping, retail, all of it.

So, um, you are CEO and Founder, chief Shopper. Chief Shopper, yes, indeed. WSL Strategic Alliance? No. Strategic. WSL. Strategic Retail. Strategic Retail. Retail. Okay. It’s a mouthful. We are the shopper people. You are the shopper people. Great. We’re the shopper people. Well, maybe we can start with, uh, telling us a little bit about what you do and what the company does.

Yeah, so our focus from the beginning. Has always been about how do you make sure the shopper is in the room? And by that I mean very easy, particularly these days with so much data. And we have all our own as well, to lose sight of who people really are and what’s important to them in their life. Not just in the category, not just in a retail channel, but what’s important to them and how you keep that very focused when you are beginning to or look for growth, whether you’re looking for, whether it’s products, categories, services, places to sell, all of that.

So all the work we do is really around retail strategy, but it’s all about, um, this notion of is she and he in the room and are you paying attention? So. I love that. And I have to bring up another fun fact about you. ’cause of course I’m affiliated with Fashion Institute of Technology, but you are on the board.

Mm-hmm. I think you might be chair of the board right now. I am Vice Chair. Vice Chair. Chair. Chair of the Vice or something? Yes. For the cosmetics and for fragrance Master’s program at FIC. Yes. So thank you. Oh, listen, it’s a wonderful program. It’s what’s, you already know this because you’re involved with FIT, but this master’s program, because it’s part, uh, it’s, it’s collaborates with the industry.

So bringing the industry and the education together to build new leaders. They’re all, uh, as you probably know in the master’s program, they’re all, um, high potential people who are already working at high levels in the industry. So they come to. Even better. And boy do you learn a lot from them. It’s wonderful

So that’s great. Anyway, well I’m excited ’cause we’re at the NIQ Conference 360 and a big announcement just took place a little while ago, a couple hours ago about Sephora and NIQ partnering together. So I’m dying to hear your thoughts about that. Yeah, I think it’s really exciting. Um, you know, I think Sephora tends to keep to themselves in terms of sharing their, um, approach, uh, to business.

And that’s part of their success, their success, their secret source, if you will. But, you know, from a brand standpoint, um, it’s really been more and more important to have them, particularly in the specialty beauty category or the beauty category at large, where they’ve been driving a lot of the innovation and growth.

So I think the value of having N IQ and Sephora as partners in this will be really powerful. We do in our own how America shops research, which is all our. Ongoing sentiment research. We always look at people who shop at Sephora, so we can track that sentiment, but this is going to be really powerful.

We’re excited because now we’re going to be able to see what the impact is on sales, digital, physical, across the, across the, their, you know, um, ecosystem. So it’s an exciting move. I give, uh, the beauty team at NIQ, great credit and Jacqueline plan and all that. That’s, that’s a feather in their proverbial caps.

Also exciting is you’re doing the panel tomorrow mm-hmm. And you have a very interesting panel of speakers that are joining you. So let’s talk about the panel and then we’ll get into the topic, right? Yeah. Uh, in a minute. Yeah. So I’m one of the panelists, um, and it’s a, it’s an area that we spend some time in, but a lot of people think we only work in the beauty and health, um, verticals.

We also, we, we are we anywhere the shopper is. That may be cars. No, even there, um, automotive. But, you know, we follow the shopper to see the future. So, um, we look at food, beverage, pets, many other categories. And so this is really the, the food and beverage vertical. So this is, we’ve got, um, the CEO of, or sorry, the President Pap Paps, chief Executive Officer of Paps Brewing, which is great.

A a, an old world company that is owned by New World investors. So a whole interesting focus than that. And, uh, Gina Ox, who’s from Gland Performance Nutrition. So they do a lot of work in the, in the ingredient, the health ingredient space. Uh, and so I am bringing the shopper point of view to this whole, uh, discussion about growth quickly.

And, and I’m a bit, sort of counterintuitive sometimes, and again, it’s just that spending time knowledge with shoppers is, it isn’t only about the lowest price. I think that’s a big concern at this moment. The, the logic or the lack of logic of saying, oh, we just need to take our prices down. I think we’re at this point of conversion or per point of inflection.

Inflection. Thank you. Thank you. Inflection. Um, that again, you need to understand the context so you know, this shoppers know where to get the lowest price anywhere, any day, anytime on just about anything, uh, already. And so when you think about, well, the only way to react to these times is chaotic times, um, are to lower prices

Shoppers already there. I mean, they know that whether it’s buying, whether it’s beer or whether it’s beauty products, right? The opportunity now, the inflection now, or the issue now has been that for a long time we’ve used price. Either increases a lot or decreases occasionally, um, to drive traffic to stores, physical and digital.

What we’ve lost our way on is innovation and experience. And so we hear this from shoppers all the time in our, you know, national studies and even in asthma graphic work that, you know, if I can buy anything anywhere, at any price, why am I showing up? Um, it’s not that they’re only looking for the lowest price on things that are just basics.

They don’t, they’ve got a brand, they don’t really care that much about changing. That’s fine. That’s on the list. It’s essentials, it’s fine, but they will spend money, and I don’t mean outrageously, but they will spend on things that have great value, whether it’s something totally unrelated, you know, whether it’s travel or something for the family or a new phone or things like that.

And so I think in the CPG space, particularly in the last few years. We have become a little bit lazy, um, in that level of innovation and experience being delivered. So that’s what I’m gonna talk about tomorrow because I think that it’s, um, if we don’t innovate and if we don’t make the retail experience both, again, I say physical and digital, more compelling, then the race to the bottom is on.

And at this moment when it’s so chaotic, uh, but politically or anything else technologically, socially, um, you know, people are trying to make sense of things and just make their lives easier. And so they will just stick with what they know and not bother with anything else. So I think we’re interesting.

We’re doing a new piece of research called How America Shops in Chaos. So when we think about innovation. What, what, can you gimme some examples or can you talk a little bit about what should innovation look like today? Yeah. Well, I think, you know, you, you need to get, again, my bias, you need to get back to what are, what are people trying to solve for?

One is, one are issues like time, stress, health, um, feeling happy about lives, creating spaces that they feel comfortable in. So just take those few, right? So if I’m going to innovate, it doesn’t necessarily mean a new flavor or a new color. It could actually mean something that’s easier to use or helps me and my family get the day, started, get dinner for tonight, have a little fun in the, you know, weekends.

So it could be around those kinds of things. It could be around solutions in terms of health. I mean, you know, you, you pick a, pick an area like. Look at, look at how people are living their lives and taking care of their parents, right? Taking care of extended families, taking care of neighbors, taking care of, or running two or three jobs.

You know, we live in quite a precious space, most of us in that sense. And so that need to solve for that, whether it’s access to information, being able to think about, I’ve got an elderly parent I’m taking care of, or I’ve got a young child who’s got issues, how do I find solutions for that? Both in product, in service, in speed of information, if I can’t afford to go to that, if I don’t have health coverage, how does a company, whether it’s a, a brand like Poppy who just sold for Squillions and Billions, but it’s a healthier product, right?

And it feels good, all of those sorts of things. So I think those kinds of areas, rather than an ingredient or a package size or a color or a. Fill in the blank. Become really, really important today and really huge opportunities I think, in all of that. And I think people are looking for just happy, happy moments.

I mean, you know, little treats, we see that in beauty where people just ha think about a brand like Elf. There’s a brand that’s, you know, had phenomenal success over the last few years. And you see a brand like Elf, it’s also got a, it’s not just cheap, it’s not sorry or inexpensive. It’s also got a point of view.

You like it or you don’t. Uh, they innovate on product. They’re fun when it comes to the way they tell their story, uh, that, you know, there’s just, there’s more to it than, um, a singular point of view or a singular component to their success. So I think that’s where there’s huge opportunity now in creating that.

And then of course, retail experiences, you know, people are buying Click online. What does that physical experience actually look like when you walk into a place, whether it’s the grocery store or whether it’s a, you know, beauty shop. So I think there’s just, we, we have to really realign ourselves and not just think about, this is a, just only an economic issue.

It’s a technological issue. You know, it’s a social issue. I mean, that’s a sweet space, space for us. So hence my passion. So I have always been a big proponent of the physical retail space. Mm-hmm. Uh, I swear like 10, 15 years ago when people were saying, oh, physical stores are dead, the store’s dead. Brick and mortar’s dead.

I just tell enough people that wasn’t the case. Right. Um, so going in fast forwarding into the next 10 years mm-hmm. Tell me your view on the physical space and, well, you talked about this experience mm-hmm. And how important that will become in the next. Five, 10 years. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think it’s so much this ability to not just think about the, when we talk about experience, it’s not just the glam, sparkling, whatever, shining, flashing, light experience.

Um, it is that experience of connecting with people one to one. You know, we think about it in everything from, you know, you probably think about yourself, I think about how I shop for groceries. So I buy online the essentials. I bought click, click, click, and they get to the house in two minutes and it’s like, well two hours and there they are.

Right? I don’t innovate around that ’cause I have my list, right? But I also have a grocery store that I go to. ’cause I know the woman who’s in the flower department where I buy my flowers. I know the cheese lady. I know the woman who’s in the freezer cabinet, who also crochets, um, whose things I buy from her.

So that experience has been much more about a community and connecting. Now my, my. My money is split now ’cause it’s not the same company. Mm-hmm. So I’m not spending as much in one place, I’m now splitting it. But they both fill a really important role. So I think people in the store, the right people in the right place, I think about everything from healthcare and please getting the pharmacist out from behind the counter.

Um, please get a nutritionist, you know, to be able to talk to me about healthier food options if I’m in the grocery store. Use technology, you know, there’s a lot of virtual assistants that can do that. So I think it’s stepping back and saying, okay, how are we going to embrace what the shopper needs in their life and how do we let them connect to real, live people in a way that’s useful, not just stocking the shelves and how do we

Help them have an efficient experience when they’re, it’s 11 o’clock at night and they forgot the kids crafting stuff for school the next day. And it’s literally click here. Thank you Amazon. Um, on my podcast, you can edit this out. Um, I had, uh, the head of, uh, health and wellness pharmacy for Walmart the other day.

And Nice. And really he, you know, talking about, you know, the technology efficiencies, the ability to be more in the community, underserved communities, absolutely. All of that, just in the, in the grocery arc, getting healthier food options. So that’s another area that is just so ripe for transformation. Um, and I think that’s the exciting point about where we are, whether it’s fashion, you know, or whether it’s food or whether it’s medicine or beauty.

There’s so much going now because we have the technology to inform and the technology to make things easier. And people are very facile. I say looking at my phone using this regardless of age. Um, and people are willing to, consumers as shoppers are willing to do all their homework. They just need to have trusted sources, trusted places that they can go to, to build out their own very personal shopping experience.

So to me, it’s really exciting to see what the next 5, 6, 7, 8 years will look like. So I think that’s exciting. Wedding. And tell our listeners the name of your podcast so they can in Of course. Thank you. Thank you. Aren’t you kind? It’s called Future Shop. As in Future Shop. My Australian accent gets me in the way.

So you can find it under WSL Strategic Retail. You can find it under Future Shop. It’s on Spotify, apple, our website, all of the above. But it’s really where we talk about, or I talk about, you know, how people’s vision of the future in very pragmatic ways. I think the biggest challenge we have in the marketing side mm-hmm.

Is that there’s so much content out there strategically. Now it’s not about creating a lot of content, right? It’s figuring out what’s the right content, when should it be delivered, right? ’cause you don’t wanna overwhelm the consumer either, right? That’s exactly right. And how can I put myself, my shopper hat on and how can I, to your point, not be overwhelmed, get what I ask for or suggested what I may not have thought to ask for.

Um, and I think that’s really important. It’s very much the same in all the data. I mean, here we are at a conference of, of an extraordinary, many year old organization that’s supplied data for years, right? And add to these people, every other data source that’s out there. So in this time of big data, we are missing, often missing the small data.

We’re missing, you know, the insight. So I always say, I’ve always said over these years, we are not a research company. And, and we have, my team looks at me like that. We do research. I say, yeah, yeah. A lot of people. It’s about what does it tell us? I don’t just wanna know, 33% of people stood on their right foot.

What I really wanna know is why and what, what does that mean? And what’s the next question to ask? And the next question to ask. So I think we are getting also to a point, and I, AI is just gonna enhance this both positively and negatively. We are gonna have this slew of more and more and more data that if we don’t train people to be smarter thinkers and more insightful as to what connections go with what, then we are just gonna have a lot of, a lot more data that’s gonna overwhelm us.

So I think that’s another piece that may come out of the AI revolution that we’re in the middle of at this moment. I agree. You know, I just think for me, this is really an exciting time. I’ve been doing this for some, some time, um, and in chaotic times like this, I. I find the only true north is to talk to people, talk to consumers as they shop, to understand what’s on their mind.I will use the example of the, not to get political of the election. I made a speech, uh, to an industry group last December in New York and I said to them, I’m not really gonna tell you anything you don’t know, but I’m gonna tell you we are not listening. And whatever your political point of view was, the fact that there were a lot of people in this country, politically or anything else who are not happy economically, feel like they’re not heard, is a big call out to anybody in a CPG space, in a, in a brand space, in a retail space.

Because we are just getting buried in our screens and our data and we’re not listening. And so I think to me, that’s both the greatest opportunity at the moment. Again, not political, just listen to people and understanding. They need. That’s just opens the doors for so many other things. I’m so excited to be here with Craig Dubiski.

Did I say that correctly? Sounded Dki. Doky Dub. Yep. Dubiski. Yeah. Um, and you have a fascinating background. You are a founder of a couple different companies and so we’re gonna talk about that in a second. Okay. And we’re here at the NIQ conference and you were a judge in the pitch slam. Yes. A judge with no judgment.

Yes. We don’t, uh, we don’t believe in judgment, but yes, yes, there was, there was good, some good judging, uh, of some really, really exceptional young companies. So it’s really a treat. Yeah. It’s great to see. And so you’re the founder of Happy I Am. Which is a coffee brand. Yeah. Along with my, I have a co-founder.

Yes, you do have a co-founder. Yeah. I gotta give him full props. He’s great. Um, tell us who your co-founder is. Our list name? Robert. Yeah. Robert Downey Jr. This is his name. Um. He’s, he is the best. He’s great. That’s great. So what’s interesting about your coffee is typically coffee’s a transaction, right? You go in, you get a cup of coffee, there’s a transaction, but not for you because you’ve created this whole idea of wellness.

And tell me a little bit about the inspiration for why you created Happy. Sure. Um, one day I was talking with Robert early on from, you know, we didn’t have any product yet. We were, we were just really in like concept mode basically. And we had some renderings, we had some 3D models and we were putting all these different pieces together.

And we had, we had done work on supply chain and who our partners were gonna be. And we, it’s not like we hadn’t done any of the nitty gritty stuff. We’d done a lot of the nitty gritty stuff and we had already trademarked the word Happy and Robert just says to me, we’re on FaceTime, I think was the, it doesn’t matter what the video platform was, but anyway, I think it was FaceTime and um, and he just goes, you know.

I get, you know, happy I, I, I get it, but like, not everybody’s happy. What can we do about that? I wonder if there’s something we do about that. And I turned around and sitting behind me on the couch was my bride and she’s a PhD in clinical psychology. Oh, nice. Yes. I married up in so many ways, so many ways.

Um, and for those of you who are just listening to this, you’re very lucky. You don’t have to look at me. But anyway, um, I married up literally like full stop. Oh my word. I’m the luckiest person you just met basically. So, um, my lovely bride is sitting behind me and I said, honey, who’s doing anything at scale that’s incredible around mental health?

And she did not miss a beat. And she goes, oh, nami. And I said, oh, what’s nami? She goes, oh, national Lifetime Mental Illness. So I’m sitting with Robert on my screen and I open up a browser and I type in, you know, NAMI and search. I read all this amazing stuff about NAMI and I use, you know, I use, I use the tools at my disposal, I use the Google, I use the LinkedIn, and, uh, I make my way to a connection eventually, you know, three away, two away, one away at nami.

And I basically convince someone to gimme some time in Arlington, Virginia, outside of DC at their headquarters. And I go down and have a big, uh, nice group of senior folks from NAMI in the room. And I explain a little bit about what we want to do and some things that we’ve been a part of in the past.

And, and I wanted to learn more about what they do too. ’cause you don’t just wanna go in and do all the talking. And I learned some incredible data points that like, give me a little, like pause for, for, you know, you’ll, you’ll hear what they are and you’ll understand why I’m getting a little choke up. But.

One in five adults have some form of mental illness. Illness. I like DSM four, like clinical kind of stuff. Not like, oh, my trip got postponed and I’m sad. That’s all real. I don’t wanna discount anyone’s feelings. But I mean, like clinical grade, right? One out of five have some form of mental illness and of adults, the suicide rate has gone up 30% in the past 20 years.

80% are men now. Um, not that that should make a any difference. It’s just a a just a another data point, right? Um, when I was a child, the number one killer of teens were car accidents. And number two is leukemia. Childhood leukemia. So cancer, which I’m very glad, we’ve made great strides in auto safety and in, uh, cancer research.

That’s important. Full stop. Number one killer of teens now is handguns, and number two is suicide. And often they go together. So hearing these very sobering, very, you know. Sad numbers. These are just factual numbers. Um, definitely had a really important impact on, on me and how we think, and I can share this hand on heart because it’s a true story or set of scenarios that played out even today.

So every day since we announced this thing, January 30th of last year is when we announced coming soon we’re gonna do this thing called happy, and we just sort of teased it out every single day. Since that day, I have either heard from someone who I thought I knew really well, a story of mental health that’s a challenging one, or someone who I just met that tells me a mental health story that will make your, you know, your heart stop.

And, uh, for a second. So, even earlier today in the, you know, in the judge’s room, I heard from somebody, you know, a story of mental health that, oh, I, you know, last night someone of some notes took their life. So every day I hear these stories. And I, in all honesty, I’m always honest, so I shouldn’t have to qualify it.

But, um, yeah, I hear these things every day. And what I said one day to our team was, a lot of brands talk about this is our purpose, this is our mission, and it’s very, our, our, it’s very me, me, me, us, us, us. Mm-hmm. And what I said was, this affects everybody. So this isn’t about our mission, our purpose, this is about our collective responsibility.

How do we take stigma away? ’cause mental health is health. And you know, if, if you said someone were mental before, that was, that was a grave insult, right? Um, if people were off or they were set. Oh, like they’re depressed. Oh, that’s a depressive. Oh, I’m not interested. Like people were viewing this stuff as very negative, which I understand.

But there are ways to help people. There’s real hope and there’s real help. And NAMI does incredible work and it’s free. Wow. And one of the most amazing things about nami, I think I turned my phone off, but I can show you this. Yeah, I have to do not disturb, but, um, let’s see if this will work. Hey Siri. I feel depressed.

Look at that. Yeah, NAMI shows up. That’s fantastic. Yeah. Um, so Nami, for those of you listening at home, um, I don’t have my volume on my phone, but I said to SIRI so I don’t activate anyone’s phone or computer who might be listening, uh, that I felt depressed. And information about NAMI shows up and in the health app, the icon looks like a little heart.

Um, all the mental health stuff is powered by nami. Uh, yeah, they developed 9, 8 8, which is the 9 1 1 for mental health. And it, you know, they’re just this incredible organization. So learning more about what they do, that they were started in the Midwest, I think it’s about 46 years ago. By two sets of parents that had children that had mental health challenges.

And back then there were no resources to the same extent that we have today. At least not the same. And clearly the stigma back then was, was, you know, much worse. Uh, so they started NAMI and fast forward there were over 600 chapters and it’s amazing the work that they do. So we didn’t wanna do something that was performative and like, oh, last month May was mental health awareness month.

If you or someone you care about has a mental health issue, every month is mental health month. If you’re LGBTQ plus, now it’s pride month, right? If you’re LGBTQ plus every waking second or sleeping second is pride month or minute or nanosecond for you. So the idea that you could be performative as a brand or try to co-opt the goodwill of a group of people or an organization tasked with helping or providing a voice for folks just didn’t sit right with us.

So. We thought, well, how do we make sure we don’t do something performative? And also like, are there things we could do, certainly to try to help NAMI and try to help remove stigma, but also try to reimagine this relationship between entrepreneurship and philanthropy? Like how would that work? Mm-hmm. So, very long story short, we partnered with nami and one of the things we said was, well, like what’s troubling you?

And they said, the number one thing they hear from people is, if only I’d known about you sooner. Oh. So we said, well, that’s an awareness issue. We could help with that. What if, what if we put information about no in every package we put out in the world? And they were like, you would do that? Yeah, we do that.

We do that tomorrow. We haven’t launched yet. Like we’re planning. Like yeah, we’ll do that and we’re gonna have distribution all over the place. So we said, yeah, we wanna do that. And what if we put a QR code and what if we put a toll free phone number? So on every pack, literally there’s a QR code. Well, let’s say you don’t have a phone with a camera.

Not everyone does. Even though we. Everyone, we, you and I are looking at our phones. I’m sure we do. Not everyone does. So there’s a toll free number. There’s a QR code, there’s information. It’s not heavy handed. It’s not like a, you know, it, it, it has a very prominent place, but it’s not the, you know, it’s not everything.

We’re not trying to be overly right. Heavy about it. Um, so we did that and then the next thing we did was we decided to give NAMI a piece of the company. Wow. So Nami, that’s amazing. Yeah. NAMI’s on our cap table. NAMI owns a piece of the company. Yeah. So we thought that would be really important and certainly would align things in much more than just, you know, oh, it’s like I said, mental health awareness month.

It’s like, no, you’re on the cap table, you’re part of the company. You own a piece of our business, so we wanna do that from the jump. So it wasn’t, again, like reactionary or um, uh. I don’t wanna say anyone who partners with anybody who’s inauthentic. That’s not fair. Of course. It, it’s just different companies and different brands have different life phases and NAMI certainly has lots of corporate partners and that’s incredible because they bring incredible value and awareness.

So we were just in the fortunate position of being at the most nascent stage. Mm-hmm. And having a real sense of what was going on in the world and knowing that a lot of people were not that happy. So, and, and we called it happy, um, ’cause my wife loves coffee and I was like, coffee makes her happy, but happy could make her coffee.

And that’s how it really got started. So some of that work was done before I got introduced to Robert and then, you know, he helped me, you know, we’re partners, we took it to another place together. I love it. That’s an amazing story. And it’s so funny ’cause I was just thinking the other day. When I travel a lot, I have my little routine with my coffee.

Mm-hmm. Uh, but when I travel, I get off routine of the coffee and everything. Do you take things with you? Well, it depends if I’m going on a plane or going in a car, it’s the whole thing. But, um, so I just got back from traveling. Mm-hmm. And like, I, I like the night before, I’m like, I’m gonna be so happy tomorrow morning.

Happy. Because I’m gonna get up and have my coffee. Yes. The way that I like to have my coffee. That’s, that’s, that’s amazing. Well, so hopefully you’ll get some, I think we have a, a bunch here. I have. Oh, you get some? I have. I tried it this morning. Oh good. And it’s fantastic. Yeah. People can’t believe it instant, so.

Oh, I can’t believe it. Yeah. We have instant coffee that’s like, shockingly surprisingly magnificently great. And people are just stunned that instant Wait, instant coffee that tastes amazing. Like, how’s that possible? Just a little fun tidbit. It’s best, it’s literally specifically blended so you can use a hot or cold.

I didn’t know that. Yeah. Excellent. So it’s, it’s, I’ll have to try, try cold. It’s a little, it’s a little pro tip. Yeah. So if you just want iced coffee that’s. Literally just put in your water bottle and you’re, you’re good to go. And you done oh’s. Great. I love it. It’s really good. So I, you know, I was all over your website looking at your product, everything, looking at the packaging and everything.

And what I noticed was you kind of have this like, quirky marketing. Like a, one of my favorite things was, we’re picky and we give a sip. Yeah. Like, that’s hysterical. And then I looked at all your company people and how you describe, like, tell me about this marketing that you’ve developed. Um, I think it’s, you know, it’s interesting ’cause I hear you say your marketing and it’s more just like how we are.

So I think, um, being, being in an early stage company and being a founder, I basically, like, I have to write pretty much all the copy in the beginning. Like, you have to dream stuff up, you have to make stuff up. It’s acio, just, you know, woo, just willy-nilly. I’m gonna make stuff up. So people tend to go like, well, well, like, where’d you get your brand voice from?

It’s like, well, it’s kind of. Good or bad right now. The line share of it is, is, you know, comes from me. And then what happens is as your company adds more people, they all pick up on it. And I tell everybody like, I’m the founder, but I’m like, you’re all founders. Like in the beginning, everybody adds and makes things better.

That’s what makes it so much fun. And that’s what helps you get through the stuff that’s really hard. ’cause it’s not all fun and games. It’s hard, right? It’s hard. But when you’re having a good time and you love each other and you trust each other, and you could say, well this is like what we think the brand should feel and sound like because it’s us talking amongst each other.

It’s not like some artificial arms length thing. It’s really like an extension of us as people. Um, so it’s very natural. It’s not like, you know, we outsource soul. We have, you know, this, this bunch of, you know, really great XY year old people that are cool. They have, you know, animals in the office and, you know, uh, you know, shuffleboard and pinball machines and fruits ball, and they do the cool stuff and we sit back and crunch numbers.

It’s like, no, we’re, we crunch numbers, but we, we do all the other stuff too. Like, we love each other. And I think, um, the culture that we have because of the respect and love we have for each other comes through in the product. And you know what’s gonna happen is with the marketing piece, you’re absolutely right.

With AI coming in, doing a lot of the marketing, oh boy, you’re absolutely right. There is gonna be, the competition isn’t gonna be the marketing. ’cause you’re never gonna win that game. It’s like, if I think about music or movies, which for a lot of people, those are very important things in their life, right?

Because it’s storytelling or soundtrack. Those are, you know, there’s emotional hooks involved. Where were you when you heard that song? Oh my God, that lyric, you know, has stayed with me my whole life. I, you know, there’s a lot of emotion around that stuff. Yeah. When you think about it, no one really says, oh, did you see.

I only watch Amazon Prime movies. I only watch Netflix movies. I only watch max movies. Oh no. Now it’s HBO. Again, I only watch HBO movies. I only watch. It’s like, no, you like, you don’t care about the delivery system. Like I don’t care if it comes to me, whatever it is that I ordered through Amazon, Walmart plus Target, you know, circle, oh it’s, it’s buy online, pick up its store.

Like it doesn’t, it doesn’t matter if it comes to me through a carrier pigeon, an Uber driver, a Lyft driver, a bird scooter rider, you know, I don’t care how it gets to me. D-H-L-U-S-P-S-U-P-S. Like those things. That’s so true. It, I care about the thing that I got. So a lot of people focus on like, well, this is where we sell.

This is our route to market, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I’m like, well, tell me about. At the end of the day, all that other stuff I think is somewhat fungible the same way. Like, I don’t care which movie studio produced the movies. It’s so funny, my husband and I constantly, we go to watch our show and I’m always saying, oh, is that on HBO?

Is it on? I don’t remember Prime? Where was it? Netflix? Like, I don’t even remember. So, so the new reality is everyone’s trying to own you, right? By saying, well, we have this show, we have this brand, we have this exclusive on this brand. You know, so, ’cause they kind of have to, right? Because at the end of the day, if you have wifi and your TV is wifi enabled, you can, you can get to just about anything, right?

And now you have a smart remote and you could say, Hey, I wanna watch this. And it goes to the platform for you. You may not even know’s if it, if it’s Hulu’s, Amazon, you know, Netflix, HBO, fill in the blank. You know, there’s so many others. Disney, I don’t mean to alienate anybody, leave anybody off the list.

Um, yeah, that’s, so it goes back to like, well what’s the thing? You know, like, I love that. I love that actor, actress. I love that musician. I love that song. I love that play. Whatever. It’s, um, yeah, the delivery system and the platform is gonna be, I think, somewhat, uh, challenged and that’s why they come up with new models, right?

Right. Like, oh, we have to get this talent on this network and not on this one. Mm-hmm. And, you know, everyone’s got a limited time off or thing. And you know, because we’re so starved for everyone’s attention as brand holders, we gotta figure out how do we get, you know, our audience to solely pay attention to our thing, even if it’s for a little bit of time.

The other thing we’re really excited about, which I haven’t really done a lot of talking about in general, not just with with you, is where and how we source the coffee. So, um, coffee’s a commodity and our thinking is that people are not. So it’s very fascinating to to us that when we look at other coffee brands and what people do, they talk about origin and you know, it’s mountain growing coffee.

All coffee grows on a mountain. There’s no valley growing coffee. There’s no intergalactic coffee yet. It’s so hot. There’s no hydroponic coffee. I mean, I’m sure these things are being worked on, but how did I miss that? Oh my god. It’s incredible, right? Yeah. So we’re really obsessed with, with people and people write their narratives through their stuff and we gotta figure out how to get people better stuff.

So when it came to sourcing the coffee, we were really particular Robert in, Robert in particular was very particular. ’cause he’s a major coffee drinker. Mm-hmm. And like aficionado. And we could line up five coffees from different elevations and he could What bank order them? Yeah. He’s a coffee salon.

He’s really, really, that’s amazing. Really. Seriously, no joke into coffee. So we spend a lot of time on, on the blends and sourcing. So our coffee for the most part. Comes from about 3000 farms and they’re all small grower farms. They’re two to five acre farms. Yeah, that’s great. And this is a amazing number.

They, these farms on a commercial farming basis for coffee represent 2.4e-05% of commercial coffee growers. So it’s a really very distinct group of growers. And right now we’re sourcing from seven countries. Most are in South America, but we also have a bunch of randan growers that we sprinkle in Randan coffee.

’cause those growers are all women. And they’re all women because there was mass genocide and all these men were killed in Rwanda. And by the way, it’s incredibly flavorful, lovely coffee. We’re not doing it just, you know, at the expense of, of the coffee’s flavor. No, we’re doing it ’cause it enhances the coffee flavor and we’re helping support all these female growers in Rwanda.

So. Stuff like that, um, hasn’t even really come out yet. We were just in Columbia with a bunch of our growers. We worked with NAMI and created a mental health program for women growers in Columbia that we work with. Oh, that’s so great. Yeah. It’s um, it’s important and you have to go. Like, we went. It wasn’t, you know, we didn’t phone it in.

We didn’t say, we’ll, hold up a phone and We’ll, you know, we’ll, we’ll use video chat. Like, no, we, you go, you go. So, yeah, we’re very fortunate. Thank you for listening and I hope you enjoyed hearing from our participants today. Let us know if you like the Roundup format. We can do more of these for upcoming conferences.

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