Retail Unwrapped from The Robin Report https://therobinreport.com Retail Unwrapped is a weekly podcast series hosted by our Chief Strategist Shelley E. Kohan. Each week, they share insights and opinions on major topics in the retail and consumer product industries. The shows are a lively conversation on industry-wide issues, trends, and consumer behavior. Wed, 04 Mar 2026 19:03:38 +0000 en-US hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.8.2 The Robin Report The Robin Report info@therobinreport.com Retail Unwrapped from The Robin Report https://therobinreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/RR_RU_Podcast_CTAArtboard-02-copy.jpg https://therobinreport.com Retail Unwrapped from The Robin Report Retail Unwrapped is a weekly podcast series hosted by our Chief Strategist Shelley E. Kohan. Each week, they share insights and opinions on major topics in the retail and consumer product industries. The shows are a lively conversation on industry-wide issues, trends, and consumer behavior. false All content copyright The Robin Report. How Barnes & Noble Made a Comeback https://therobinreport.com/how-barnes-noble-made-a-comeback/ Thu, 05 Mar 2026 05:01:00 +0000 https://therobinreport.com/?p=135047 How Barnes Noble Made a ComebackThe Barnes & Noble strategy of deferring to local taste over stock-wide uniformity and treating stores as community hubs rather than depots of inventory stands in stark contrast to Amazon’s homogenized and algorithmically curated marketplace.]]> How Barnes Noble Made a Comeback

Depending on what you read, no one is reading books anymore. Are we addicted streamers? A 2025 study found that daily reading for pleasure dropped by over 40 percent in the last 20 years, with nearly 46 percent of U.S. adults not reading a single book in 2023. Americans are reading an average of 12.6 books per year. Invoking the 80/20 rule, in 2025, 19 percent of adults (those who read 10+ books) accounted for 82 percent of all books read.

The numbers would validate the fact that the iconic Barnes & Noble bookseller was pushed to the edge of extinction, accelerated by the unrelenting digital rise of Amazon. So, it is all the more counterintuitive that Barnes & Noble stands as one of the most remarkable retail turnarounds of the past decade.

How did Barnes & Noble turn around a dying business? And the answer is: James Daunt revitalized an iconic brand by re-humanizing the business.

B&N Rising from the Ashes

If you follow the readership numbers, it is surprising that under the leadership of James Daunt, the English-born bookseller has not only clawed back relevance but has also expanded to the point that its private equity owner is readying an initial public offering for the combined Barnes & Noble and Waterstones business.

Elliott Management is expected to hire investment bank Rothschild & Co. to advise on options for a public offering of its retail group, which could happen as early as the second quarter of this year and is likely to be on the London Stock Exchange. So just how did an ailing bookseller turn the tables on a global digital giant with endless bookshelves and its own e-readers glued to its proprietary screens? And then is the 20 percent of book-reading consumers responsible for Barnes & Noble’s success? It’s a logical assumption.

Elliott Takes Waterstones Formula to the U.S.

When Elliott Investment Management acquired Barnes & Noble in 2019 for $683 million, revenue was in decline, losses were mounting, and it faced a formidable competitor in Amazon; the digital behemoth had fundamentally changed how Americans bought and consumed books. For years, Amazon’s market dominance, ease of purchase, low prices and proprietary Kindle e-reader left traditional bookstores struggling to turn the page.

James Daunt’s arrival in New York was greeted with cautious optimism. A former banker, he had his own successful, eponymous bookstore group in the U.K, which he continues to own. Daunt brought a philosophy radically different from the corporate uniformity that had defined Barnes & Noble’s operations for years as a mall and main street staple. Drawing on his experience at Waterstones, where he had been at the helm since 2011, he insisted local stores be run more like independent shops than cookie-cutter chains. Daunt undertook a sweeping cultural overhaul. Local store managers were empowered to curate selections tailored to their communities, shelving displays were reimagined, and the emphasis shifted from broad and deep inventory to curated discovery.

“Everybody thinks that we must be doing one thing; either we must be going small, or we must be going large. The fact is, we’re doing everything,” Daunt told me about the range of store formats Barnes & Noble is now operating. He stressed his long-held belief that physical retail can compete with the utility of online bookstores as long as it offers variety and relevance to its local customers.

Barnes & Noble Expansion

The transformation has been dramatic. Barnes & Noble opened over 60 new stores across the U.S. in 2025 and pushed its holdings above 700 locations, with plans for 60 more in 2026. Waterstones in the UK is approaching 400 stores, with more expansion planned.

The company remains determined that the store portfolio will be just as eclectic as the site selection, although the new stores are generally smaller than its traditional larger-footprint outlets. This reflects the change of emphasis to a curated rather than all-encompassing offer and the more cost-effective nature of smaller units.

Daunt said that when expanding locations, he was less interested in the plethora of analytical location data and more focused on gut feel. New locations are driven by “self-observation” from the company’s field team, who identify possible sites and store managers ready for the next step to run their own stores. While he is reticent to admit his personal satisfaction, Barnes & Noble took over some former, shuttered Amazon Books stores. It’s hard not to conjure up the image of Daunt’s victory stroll through a repurposed and more relevant bookstore.

Building Loyalty

“The model that we now have, which devotes considerable responsibility and accountability to the store teams, means you can set up a store appropriate to the place in which you find yourself. We’re not trying to have the same store on the Upper East Side as we would if we’re opening in, say, Montana or indeed the Bronx, just a few miles away,” Daunt added.

In recent years, Barnes & Noble has also reconsidered what it sells, reducing reliance on technical or specialist volumes in favor of broader lifestyle offerings, including stationery, greeting cards, gift items, the prerequisite Starbucks café, and other categories that drive both discovery and sales. There are special events including readings and signings, a children’s area where they can sit and read (and be read to), and plenty of adult seating to settle in with a new book.

The company has “evolved the Amazon out of our bookstores,” as Daunt puts it and has firmly prioritized the human experience, including collaborations with, for example, children’s favorite Moomin to promote and create special areas within stores. B&N is reclaiming the role of a community hub, returning on experience.

Site Selection Based on Local Lore

Daunt’s highly unconventional approach to B&N’s expansion reflects his own history as a bookseller rather than as a retailer. “We’re not that traditional big-box retailer where it’s all driven by the real estate dynamic,” he said. “Of course, you need the landlord with properties who wishes to lease them to you. But we’re in places where we think we will do well and where people want to buy books.”

These changes have paid off. The combined Barnes & Noble and Waterstones business now generates more than $3 billion in sales and over $400 million in profits. Perhaps the boldest sign of confidence is the advanced talks over a public offering. The IPO isn’t just a financial event; it is a validation of a belief that brick-and-mortar bookselling can thrive in a world dominated by ecommerce.

The strategy of deferring to local taste over stock-wide uniformity and treating stores as community hubs rather than depots of inventory stands in stark contrast to Amazon’s homogenized and algorithmically curated marketplace. And while Amazon’s sophisticated recommendation engines and global logistics continue to dominate online book sales, they cannot replicate the serendipity of browsing a thoughtfully merchandised bookstore. It’s that gap that gives Barnes & Noble a competitive edge.

Postcards From the Edge

Daunt’s intuitive leadership and the company’s resurgence come at a time when broader consumer trends have shown renewed interest in physical books and demand for in-person experiences. Viral social media movements around reading, such as the #BookTok phenomenon, have highlighted how discovery can flourish in community settings far beyond algorithms.

That said, bookstore sales in the U.S. declined 8 percent over the five-year period from $8.6 billion in 2019 to $7.9 billion in 2024, according to the Census Bureau’s Annual Retail Trade Survey. Barnes & Noble is bucking the trends, appealing to core book buyers and providing meaningful experiences. The brand’s comeback under James Daunt is not just about surviving Amazon’s endless domination; it’s about reminding the market that respect for people’s desire for discovery, curation, and local engagement matter more than ever.

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Southdale Center Turns 70; Then What?  https://therobinreport.com/southfield-center-turns-70-then-what/ Thu, 26 Feb 2026 05:01:00 +0000 https://therobinreport.com/?p=132964 Southfield Center Turns 70 Then WhatRepositioning malls from single-purpose points of transaction into dynamic community forums promoting human interaction is the sustainable reinvention of irrelevant malls. But, given the ginormous price tag involved, there are only a finite number of malls destined for such rejuvenation. The vast majority will perish. ]]> Southfield Center Turns 70 Then What

America’s first indoor mall, Southdale Center in Edina, Minnesota, is celebrating its 70th anniversary this year. This birthday could be a litmus test of the viability of the traditional shopping mall. To ensure its relevance, owner Simon Properties just completed a $400 million renovation and new luxury wing, bringing together Gucci, Louis Vuitton, Moncler, Watches of Switzerland/Rolex, MaxMara, and David Yurman. Southdale now has the highest concentration of luxury retail in the upper Midwest and elevates the “luxe listings” above its mega-competitor Mall of America, just a few miles away. But the question remains: Will this capital infusion guarantee Southdale’s future as a 20th-century architectural aberration in a digital/agentic age? And will chasing the top 10 percent of spenders buy Southdale and Simon time? It is by no means a guarantee of its longevity.

Can the 70-year-old Southdale Center live up to consumers’ expectations? And the answer is: Adding a new luxury wing is not a panacea for cultural relevance; today’s malls need to deliver experience and brands that are meaningful to consumers.

In the Beginning

Southdale’s origin story is a retail case study. Funded by the Dayton Development Company, it’s widely considered to be the nation’s first fully enclosed, climate-controlled shopping mall. Austrian-born architect Victor Gruen had a different vision from Dayton’s. Gruen planned for the center to be surrounded by housing, apartment buildings, schools, and medical facilities, as well as natural amenities including a lake and a park, modeled after the commerce centers of many European cities. In 1956, he was ahead of his time; the mall became…a mall.

Gruen’s original vision, now known as mixed-use development, has become the formula for the reinvention and salvation of malls like Southdale. Repositioning malls from single-purpose points of transaction into dynamic community forums promoting human interaction is the sustainable reinvention of irrelevant malls. But, given the ginormous price tag involved, there are only a finite number of malls destined for such rejuvenation. The vast majority will perish.  

Class Distinctions

Between 1970 and 2002, over 800 shopping malls were built in America. Money was cheap, second-string suburbs were flourishing, and young consumers—baby boomers—were entering their prime earning years.  By the mid-1990s, mall numbers peaked at over 1,500 enclosed malls. Then the tide changed. Today, approximately 700 fully enclosed malls still exist, and projections suggest that another 25 percent of these remaining centers will shutter within the next five years. Analysts predict as few as 200 survivors by the mid-2030’s.

What’s the formula for mall survival? Malls are bluntly, real estate assets. And for real estate, the age-old adage “location, location, location” is the playbook. In terms of sustainability, a mall’s age, tenant mix, occupancy rates, and institutional ownership play decisive roles in defining the ABCs of property class ranking.

  • The highest performing A-class malls boast premium tenants, affluent customers, and high occupancy rates (mid-high 90 percent range). Their tenants are made up of stable, national luxury and premium brands. These properties are newer or heavily renovated, located in affluent markets, typically home to Apple stores, and many are mixed-use village spaces like The Grove.

  • B-class malls are moderate performers, plagued by failing mid-market specialty chains. With occupancy rates of 80-90 percent, they are often found in secondary suburbs and cater to value-oriented families. They are generally older centers devoid of improvements, and many are still anchored by JCPenney.

  • C-class malls are the most endangered species, with 500-600 already shuttered since the mid-1990s. Occupancies are often at or below 70 percent and are considered distressed properties. They cater to highly price-sensitive shoppers with local retailers, discounters, and non-retail services. 

Gruen’s Gospel

I believe the Gruen gospel of “placemaking” will ultimately determine the fate of Southdale and the rest of the remaining A-class malls. Their ownership is concentrated among a small number of deep-pocketed development and management companies, including Simon Property Group, Brookfield Properties, Macerich, (and to a lesser extent) SITE Centers, Taubman, and Unibail-Rodamco-Westfield.

It’s Simon Property Group and Brookfield Properties, who together own and control nearly half of A-class malls in the U.S. and they must concentrate on bringing their aging mall properties into the 21st century through additions, renovations, and tenant upgrades.

Southdale was completed in 1956, and the mall was just over 800,000 square feet. Today it is 60 percent larger at 1.3 million square feet. The mall’s haphazard expansion in 1963 and 1971, along with multiple renovations through the 2000s and 2010s, has resulted in a rather schizophrenic visitor experience. The current luxury wing is at odds with the rest of the mall. While the new single-level wing is upscale and polished, it feels like an island (or peninsula) unto itself. Visitors arriving through any of the mall’s other primary entrances will, no doubt, be wowed by the newly renovated center court. However, finding the new luxury wing presents a quandary, accessible exclusively via a second-level corridor. 

Futureproofing an Aging Mall

All the money in the world can’t save an irrelevant mall. Some centers are destined to fail in the brutal survival of the fittest. There are core fundamentals that are prerequisites in the reimagining and futureproofing of aging malls. Will Southdale measure up? 

  • Anchor Replacement: A mall’s once dominant department stores literally served as anchors and traffic generators, as well as magnets to attract desirable specialty stores. With their departure, similarly compelling anchor-like players must fill that role. A plethora of unlikely candidates are filling the bill today. They include high-end grocery stores, fitness and co-working centers, hotels, medical centers, “high experience” retailers, and even private clubs. Dick’s House of Sport, which has effectively replaced former Sears stores in several top-tier malls is an excellent example.

To Southdale’s credit, it has flexed its “anchor’s away” muscle. In 2019, on the site of a JCPenney store, a massive $43 million, 204,000-square-foot Life Time Fitness flagship dropped anchor. Billed as a three-story athletic resort, it included a rooftop beach club, pool, and even pickleball courts. Immediately adjacent is a 75,000 square foot Life Time luxury coworking development and indoor soccer field. Both are knockout examples of anchor replacement.

In 2024, on the site of a former Herberger’s department store, Southdale introduced a 25,000 square foot, two-level Puttshack, that bills itself as an “upscale, tech-infused” mini-golf experience. Immediately adjacent is Kowalski’s Market, a premier specialty grocer which should also generate repeat traffic.  Southdale’s score: 9 out of 10.

  • Retail Theater and Experience Engines: The success of the reimagined mall becomes a shared proposition between landlord and tenants. In the face of unified commerce, the continued growth of online retail, augmented reality, and generative AI, brands are being forced to up their game to get folks off the couch. Becoming fully immersed in a brand’s storytelling has become the new norm. Brands like Lego, Crayola, Build-A-Bear, and Camp have become the new “play stations,” undergoing constant reinvention aimed at lengthening the customer’s visit and creating memorable moments.

With the massive popularity of the collectables market that grew by 32 percent in 2025, select specialty retailers are cashing in. Among them, CardVault, Pokémon Center, Kura Sushi gashapon, and Pop Mart. They sit at the intersection of collecting, surprise, and social sharing. They are selling sets, series, rarities, even blind boxes that foster “the chase.”

And beyond the store purchase, often viral “unboxing” follows, driving social media sharing. These brands, and others like, them populate the halls of the Mall of America, while Southdale hasn’t hopped on that brand wagon yet. Southdale’s score: 2 out of 10.

  • Social Interaction and Brand Activation: More than ever, brands depend on popular performers and sports figures to co-promote product drops. To that end, top malls have beefed-up marketing and event teams to facilitate high-energy, revolving events to drive traffic. Southdale currently has a considerable amount of underutilized space which could be captured for such events that bring “like-minded” groups together around a shared passion. Southdale’s score: 5 out of 10.

  • Food-Forward Destinations: National restaurant chains like Applebee’s will no longer cut it with new generations, proud of their food-fixated tastes. The winning ticket includes chef-driven restaurants, multicultural food halls, and experiential dining. Chef-staged, fixed-price dinners are selling out months in advance. Even ghost kitchens are being created to facilitate the preparation of Michelin Chef-quality meals for takeout or near-instant delivery to area foodies.

Southdale’s Dining Pavilion is the ghost of its former massive food court; there are plenty of tables and chairs, but light on eats. Southdale is lacking in the fine dining experience that will lure in customers. Southdale’s score: 7 out of 10.

  • Social Infrastructure and Walkability: Too many major malls resemble fortresses, surrounded by seas of asphalt, as vehicular access and parking overrode pedestrian friendliness during the planning process. The new mall’s viability focuses on socialization, visit duration, relaxation, and immersion. Reimagined, multi-use developments are selling off excess parking to accommodate multi-family housing. Other pedestrian-centric amenities include green spaces, walking paths, water features, community gardens, and well-equipped play areas, for folks to gather, linger, meet, and work. Southdale hasn’t begun turning parking lots into parks. With an influx of multi-family residential properties and luxury services, “greening” initiatives are a must. Southdale’s score: 5 out of 10.

Prescription

While Southdale doesn’t publish its annual visits, The Minneapolis/St. Paul Business Journal reported an 11 percent increase in foot traffic following the opening of the new luxury wing, which isn’t too surprising.  Applying my “mall-metamorphosis metrics,” Southdale is an overachiever with its recent retail and lifestyle additions; however, it is clearly an underachiever in the rest of the crucial placemaking attributes. New retail is moving much faster than center owners, including Southdale, can anticipate and act on. Its relevance will depend on staying ahead of what customers want, not catching up to them.

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Kohls: The Robin Report Retail Miss of the Week, 2.21.26 https://therobinreport.com/kohls-the-robin-report-retail-miss-of-the-week-2-21-26/ Sat, 21 Feb 2026 05:01:00 +0000 https://therobinreport.com/?p=131594 Kohls The Robin Report Retail Miss of the Week 2.21.26The idea of full price retailers setting aside a dedicated promotional area in their stores goes back at least to the famous “O” tables (opportunities) merchandised by up-and-coming junior buyers at A&S including Allen Questrom and  Mike Gould.]]> Kohls The Robin Report Retail Miss of the Week 2.21.26

The idea of full price retailers setting aside a dedicated promotional area in their stores goes back at least to the famous “O” tables (opportunities) merchandised by up-and-coming junior buyers at A&S including Allen Questrom and  Mike Gould. And then there were the Blue Light Specials at Kmart in its heyday. The best manifestations more recently were the Target Bullseye Dollar Spots, which have since lost much their luster and focus like so much else in the store. So, Kohls’ introduction of a similar merchandising concept called the Deal Bar doesn’t get any kudos from us. In fact, what worries us is Kohl’s chronically poor execution at the store level. Why can’t they get this right; it’s not rocket science. This could easily turn into a pile of leftovers, markdowns and irrelevance. We hope not but Kohl’s track record on such programs continues to be pretty dismal. 

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Is Netflix House the Next Big Retail Thing? https://therobinreport.com/is-netflix-house-the-next-big-retail-thing/ Mon, 09 Feb 2026 05:01:00 +0000 https://therobinreport.com/?p=127589 Is Netflix House the Next Big Retail ThingIt doesn’t get any more experiential than Netflix’s store format, which takes participatory adventures, hospitality and the ubiquitous gift shop to levels unmatched by anything this side of Florida theme parks. ]]> Is Netflix House the Next Big Retail Thing

I have seen the future of the Great American Shopping Mall…maybe. And I survived. As department stores crash and burn, specialty chains fold up like cheap lawn chairs, and food courts become Ozempic victims, a new potential victor has arrived on the retail scene. And it’s not coming from a traditional retailing company, startup from techdom or a visitor from another planet. It’s from a streaming entertainment behemoth.

Is Netflix House a new retail paradigm? And the answer is: More likely it’s the latest shiny, new retail toy. But it does have a few superpowers: capturing the attention, imagination and wallets of its loyal fans. Is it sustainable with repeat visits? We’ll see.

Streaming Retail

Netflix House is the latest riff in retailing, with its first two stores having opened late last year, and at least one more on the way in 2027 in Las Vegas. It represents a potential new format that could rescue shopping malls from the ongoing deterioration in American retailing. Then again, it could be the latest colossal failure in a long line of retail concepts that promised big things and ended up with padlocked doors and large going-out-of-business signs in their windows. Or worse, dream malls that became food courts and carnivals.

I just got back from Dallas, where Netflix House has set up shop; its other location is in King of Prussia, PA.  And I’m here to tell you it’s exciting, innovative and was packed on a busy Saturday afternoon. Whether it will succeed is, of course, an entirely different matter. We’ll see how it fares in a whimsical customer-driven retail marketplace.

What’s in the House?

The Dallas Netflix store, opened in December in what had once been a Belk store in the still popular upscale Galleria, including Nordstrom, Macy’s, Louis Vuitton, an ice-skating rink and architecture inspired by Milan’s Galleria Vittorio Emanuele shopping space. Netflix measures out at 100,000 square feet on two floors with direct access from both the interior and exterior of the mall (with a big red square emblazoned on the store’s wall that Netflix hailed as an homage to its mail-in DVD envelope origins). The King of Prussia store is similar in design.

While it’s free to enter, once inside, the meter starts running the minute you actually want to do anything. The star attractions are two interactive experiences (c’mon, what else can you call them?) based on wildly popular Netflix series: Stranger Things Escape the Dark and Squid Games Survive the Trials. Tickets for these immersive experiences run about $40, depending on the timed entry and other factors. What do you get for that? Good question. As we were clearly not the right target demographic for either room (in fact our mere appearance at the place brought up the average age of the crowd by a factor of two), all we can tell you is that they are part game room, part escape room and part nightmare. The Stranger Things room carries a “parental supervision required for guests under 14 due to graphic content” warning.

Long lines to enter both spaces called “Studios” on a busy Saturday afternoon seemed to indicate they had winners on their hands, though you have to wonder how many repeat visitors these kinds of things will get. We also thought it odd that both these experiences were located on the lower level of the place (we can’t quite call it a store) rather than more visibly on the larger main floor. For such a hot ticket, it seems shortsighted to have only one kiosk on-site to purchase tickets. But just like movie theaters, the popular online ticketing service guarantees timed reservations.

Level Up

The main floor showcased the Netflix Bites restaurant, which, in addition to the usual teenage wasteland burgers, pizza and fries assortment, features a few Netflix property-themed offerings such as Red Bite Green Bite fried chicken and Perfect Pickle Pie. If you have to ask, you probably are sticking with the burger. There’s a bar with more Netflix tie-ins like Streaming Optimism and Passion on Demand. There’s also plenty of giant servings of iced tea; this is the South, after all. It should be noted that Netflix road-tested the Bites concept last year with pop-ups in Las Vegas and Los Angeles, both of which are now closed as the company has moved to the House concept.

Then there’s the game room, called RePlay, featuring a wide assortment of arcade games, many of which are naturally themed to Netflix properties and offer multi-player competitive contests. Again, Netflix’s targets of loyal fans (and next gens) totally get how to play these games

The Merch

Of course, there’s the prerequisite, high-margin gift shop. It’s huge, maybe 10,000 square feet and full of anything and everything you’d ever want in Netflix products. Given the creativity shown in the rest of the House, we were a bit disappointed to see a fairly standard assortment of apparel, water bottles and fashion accessories with only the occasional inspired item. How could they not sell squid?

No matter, the lines were long here, snaking through a checkout lane that offered last-minute pick-up items in the best tradition of a Bed Bath & Beyond and Sephora. And they weren’t giving anything away either, mind you.

Is a House a Store?

As well done as Netflix House is on most levels, let’s remember it’s not exactly a new concept. Disney tried—and failed—with urban shopping area themed attractions two decades ago. In the 1990s, Radio Shack rolled out a giant retail concept called Incredible Universe which, while it didn’t include interactive areas, was a theme park kind of experience. It too failed. And American Dream in the swamps of Jersey is nothing if not an amusement park masquerading as a shopping center with rides, a water park, ice skating and enough interactive storefronts to keep a family of four occupied (and broke) for days at a time. It remains to be seen if it will be the success its developers keep saying it will become. All said, the Harry Potter immersive stores seem to be holding up.

If you’re in the retail business, you really need to see a Netflix House. It is onto the most compelling reasons for retail to succeed: customer engagement, surprise and delight. It captures the imagination and attention, plus the dollars of its fans. See for yourself and decide if this is truly the next big thing.  Retailing has always been a game. It’s Netflix’s (potentially) winning move right now.

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Think You’re in Control Shopping for Groceries? Wrong! https://therobinreport.com/think-youre-in-control-shopping-for-groceries-wrong/ Tue, 03 Feb 2026 05:01:00 +0000 https://therobinreport.com/?p=126768 Think Youre in Control Shopping for Groceries WrongEvery scan of your card, every clipped coupon, every “substitute” you accept when something’s out of stock is recorded. You’re not just earning points; you’re teaching the system how to give you what exactly you want.]]> Think Youre in Control Shopping for Groceries Wrong

You think you’re in control of what you choose in a supermarket? Well, sorry to report, but you’ve been played. You don’t decide what you buy at the grocery store. An algorithm does. Welcome to the brave new world of the Agentic AI shopping experience. Your grocery trip is an experiment—and you’re the test subject. You’re not in control and here’s why.

Pricing and promotions are manipulated just for you. You think the electronic shelf price is the same for everyone?  The offers hitting your phone, your inbox, and your app are tuned into you—your income bracket, your brand loyalties, your preferences and soft spots. And you gave it all permission. That’s the promise of AI, as long as it doesn’t terrify you.

Think about it. You signed up for loyalty programs. But they aren’t just about rewarding you—it’s a brilliant way to deliver exactly what you want based on what the data has recorded. It’s a win-win if you think about it. You provide access to your personal data, and your local store becomes your personal shopper.

Every scan of your card, every clipped coupon, every “substitute” you accept when something’s out of stock is recorded. You’re not just earning points; you’re teaching the system how to give you what exactly you want.

This is not a bad thing if you want a seamless, stress-free shopping experience. The more you let AI know, the more your local shopping experience can make your life easier. We’re just entering this new world on steroids where AI data accelerates the information you give it to deliver an experience that makes you the most important priority.

Is this creeping you out? Don’t panic. You can limit what AI can access and control the world curated just for you. If it does creep you out, be aware, be informed. But when you think about it, we’re entering a social contract with Agentic AI that can make our lives easier. That’s not so bad.

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Intelligent Retail: Mastering Agentic AI https://therobinreport.com/intelligent-retail-mastering-agentic-ai/ Mon, 02 Feb 2026 05:01:00 +0000 https://therobinreport.com/?p=125934 Intelligent Retail Mastering Agentic AIAt best, Agentic AI is a system’s ultimate thinking tool. Enabling a retail metachannel, Agentic learns from itself, tests and evaluates alternatives, executes decisions, and automatically improves. ]]> Intelligent Retail Mastering Agentic AI

Agentic AI is an amorphous catchall that is tricky to define but managed to eclipse any other discourse at the recent 2026 NRF Big Show. Brands including LVMH, Home Depot, Warby Parker, Target, and others discussed their understanding of an Agentic AI future. They were joined by executives from Microsoft and OpenAI. Google’s CEO, Sundar Pichai and new CEO John Furner discussed AI integration with Walmart. Additionally, Pichai announced Google’s Universal Commerce Protocol (a set of global standards to facilitate Agentic AI retail activity worldwide).

There was an abundance of chatter, but retailers and brands seemed unable to deliver a concise, consistent definition of Agentic AI and how to use it. Admittedly, Agentic will change the AI conversation dramatically, and as with any introduction of the next best AI tool, its applications and implications are generally misunderstood.

Will Agentic AI dramatically change the course of retail? And the answer is: If retailers learn what Agentic is and how it really works, it’s a direct path to efficiencies and customer delight.

Chasing Agentic Windmills

With retailers seduced by the lustrous orb of Agentic AI, we thought it would be useful to clear the air with a broad definition of the concept and describe how brands apply (or are building applications for) the technologies. At best, Agentic AI is a system’s ultimate thinking tool and takes on the aptitudes of LLM-powered AI in retail.

  • Customer behavior
  • Inventory flows
  • Supply chain rhythms
  • Pricing strategy
  • Store operations
  • Security oversight
  • Digital interactions
  • Loyalty patterns
  • Customer support
  • Weather activity impacts

Agentic AI Accelerates Retail Operations

Agentic AI upgrades its AI ancestors as it performs tasks autonomously within the retail funnel. New models blend with CRM and POS systems from discovery and checkout to post-purchase support. Agentic AI is still evolving and always improving as it operates at a higher level tackling these complicated tasks.

  • Influencing discovery
  • Optimizing inventory
  • Mitigating supply chain disruptions
  • Applying dynamic pricing
  • Facilitating customer purchase activity capture, checkout, and attribution
  • Leveraging chatbots built from large language models to interpret user input and generate adaptive responses
  • Coordinating staff scheduling
  • Identifying and mitigating dark pattern activity and crime
  • Identifying points of failure
  • Customizing loyalty incentives
  • Resolving support issues
  • Generating catalog, marketing, and advertising content
  • Adapting based on outcomes
  • Mitigating weather disruption costs

Omnichannel Evolution

The omnichannel customer experience stitched together stores, ecommerce, mobile, social, marketplaces, and call centers, but the customer moved among these channels as discrete silos. With Agentic AI, the promise is that the channels will dissolve. This near-future experience is emerging as a novel retail ecosystem that will treat every touchpoint as part of a unified system.

  • The customer journey is continuous and customized
  • Context follows the customer everywhere
  • The brand behaves like a single, coordinated organism, not a set of channels (your call is never transferred to another representative)
  • Data, identity, inventory, and personalization function across devices, whether online, in-store, or both simultaneously
  • A website can be a living store with the thrill of discovery, and a store can be a living website that directs you to what you are searching for
  • The experience adapts to the customer, not the other way around

Metachannel retail (no connection to the Big 7 tech company) is an apt reengineering of omnichannel. Metachannel reflects a quasi-scientific interpretation of systemic metapsychology, which applies concepts of self-examination (of a company, not a personality), interdependence (within the organization and between trusted partners), systems-level behavior, and self-repair or mitigation. It is a retail channel that learns from itself, tests and evaluates alternatives, executes decisions, and automatically improves.

Operations and Aspirations

While the pace and intensity of adoption may vary, an AI transformation is underway across the retail industry. Granted, Agentic AI is the latest hot topic, and there is evidence of early stages of early adoption. Plans and aspirations outweigh practical applications in retail. However, there are a few pioneers.

  • LVMH executives Gonzague de Pirey and Soumia Hadjali have announced an initiative called AI for All, which spans the company’s portfolio of Maisons. The aim of the program is to elevate the user experience across all touchpoints in the system, associates, management, clients, artisans, and operations, through AI. De Pirey emphasizes the importance of an AI that is aligned with the brand’s culture as the company implements what it calls “quiet AI.” He stresses, “The technology should be everywhere, and invisible.” Each Maison at LVMH develops unique AI activations, but the company shares best practices and technology to scale the implementation across the organization. An AI activation at Dior will look very different than one at Sephora, but many of the systems interconnect.
  • At Louis Vuitton, Soumia Hadjali, Global Vice President, Client Development & Digital, applies AI to leverage LV’s many cultural initiatives. “Our digital concierge is both deeply personal and context aware. It will know how our clients shop; not just what they buy, but who they are, and where they live.” She continues, “Louis Vuitton has cafés, restaurants, and exhibitions. We can organize a private table at our restaurant when it is hard to get a table. We can book tickets for an exhibition. We can become part of our client’s life.”
  • Target is on an accelerated trajectory. CIO Prat Vemana describes the retailer’s partnership with OpenAI. He is clear about the retailer’s AI ambitions: “Target has moved from using AI to running on AI.” The new OpenAI integration includes many Agentic AI functions aimed at efficiency both online and in-store. Customer service centers and associates have gained two Agentic AI superpowers via the Agent Assist and Store Companion devices developed with OpenAI. The devices allow price matching and can start returns on the spot in-store. Vemana adds, “Target is not a marketplace; it is a curated retailer. The process of vetting vendors used to take thousands of hours; now we get it done in minutes.”
  • Albertsons’ Agentic AI shopping assistant (which doesn’t seem to have a very catchy name) is jockeying for relevance as grocery options multiply. In a field test AI was challenged with a complicated prompt that required analysis from diverse streams of data and information. It delivered a menu designed to satisfy a group comprising a vegan, lactose-intolerant, peanut-sensitive, and gluten-free group of guests. The bot produced a list of recipes from which to choose and eventually filled the virtual shopping cart with the necessary ingredients, including a few private-label items.
  • Ralph Lauren’s Ask Ralph chatbot is a more primitive version of Agentic AI that shares sophisticated fashion advice from a virtual facsimile of the fashion icon himself. Chief Branding and Innovation Officer, David Lauren, was an early adopter of OpenAI’s ChatGPT through the brand’s tech integration with Microsoft Azure. Understandably, Lauren is an advocate of the shoppable, conversational version of his Dad steering potential clients toward a sale.

Eyes Wide Shut

AI’s stealth infusion into everything has been stunning. User adoption, exploration, and exploitation are fully turbocharged. Both business and society (including consumers) have had little time to consider the implications of these emerging technological shifts as the world races to retool and keep up with the pace of change. The shiny object that is AI, and the even shinier possibilities promised by Agentic, are alluring, but there are vexing implications that can’t be ignored.

Agentic AI reflects engineering advancements that continue to encroach on unique human capabilities. In a capitalist economy, public corporations beholden to shareholders will choose efficiency over the workforce. These will not be layoffs; It is unlikely that jobs lost to AI will ever return. The economic impact of job losses writ large will impact society, culture, governance, and naturally slam into the retail industry.

The computing power needed to support the massive data centers that power AI currently, compounded by the exponentially increasing energy demands of the more complex Agentic AI, will strain aging energy grids in the U.S. and elsewhere. High power demands drive up electricity costs, particularly in the U.S., as renewables stall. Obviously, higher electricity costs reduce discretionary spending for consumers across many income segments.

Agentic AI requires deep, personal data sharing with service providers. For a consumer-facing Agentic agent to be effective, trust is critical. Consumers will be required to share personal and financial information, including personal characteristics (age, weight and size), location data, biometric information for identity verification, routines, habits, pricing sensitivity and logic, and more. In other words, Agentic AI needs to understand who you are, what you want, how you behave, your constraints, and which actions you are comfortable authorizing the agent to perform. It goes without saying that undisclosed data sharing, selling, leaks, and security breaches will shatter the trust between the customer and the brand.

AI Axiom

As retail’s AI transformation marches forward, it should be approached thoughtfully.  Brands and retailers need to anchor every AI decision in their culture, identity, and strategic intent. Ask Ralph, LVMH’s AI for All, and other luxury AI applications should deepen the bespoke, high-touch relationship between client and brand; anything that feels like a generic chatbot breaks the spell. For Target, where speed, scale, and efficiency fulfill the brand’s AI intent, intelligent automation that delivers faster, more personalized service is exactly on‑brand. And when operational AI unlocks cost savings, passing those savings on to shoppers reinforces Target’s value-driven identity. The rule is simple: Innovation only works when it authentically amplifies the brand and delivers meaningful benefit to the one stakeholder who matters most, the customer.

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How AI Propels FedEx Customer UX https://therobinreport.com/how-ai-propels-fedex-customer-ux/ Fri, 30 Jan 2026 05:01:00 +0000 https://therobinreport.com/?p=125614 Retail Unwrapped Podcast Art 3Join Shelley and Jason Brenner, Senior Vice President Digital Portfolio at FedEx as they delve into the fascinating world of returns logistics and how the process has evolved. Jason says consumer familiarity with ‘no box, no label’ returns jumped from 37 percent to 48 percent in just one year. ]]> Retail Unwrapped Podcast Art 3

Customers have high expectations in their transaction experiences that do not end with the purchase. Today’s empowered and convenience-focused consumers want easy returns, and FedEx is on a mission to make that a reality using AI as a tool to improve the experience.  Join Shelley and Jason Brenner, Senior Vice President Digital Portfolio at FedEx as they delve into the fascinating world of returns logistics and how the process has evolved. Jason says consumer familiarity with ‘no box, no label’ returns jumped from 37 percent to 48 percent in just one year. He attributes the increase to consumers’ perceived value around the experience. “Nearly half of U.S. customers say they’re now familiar with ‘no box, no label’ returns and the usage continues to increase year over year; the reason is that once shoppers try it, they understand how convenient and how low stress it can be,” he adds. Their conversation deconstructs shipping logistics and reveals why confidence comes from predictability and visibility that is grounded in a simple UX supported by reliable communications with thoughtful updates throughout the post-purchase journey. As with any customer service, trust, reducing stress and anxiety and managing expectations are crucial. Listen and learn how this iconic logistics organization continues to push the envelope to deliver better customer experiences.

Special Guests

Jason Brenner, Senior Vice President Digital Portfolio, FedEx

Shelley E. Kohan (00:03)
Hi everybody and thanks for joining our weekly podcast. I’m Shelley Kohan and I’m very excited to welcome Jason Brenner, who’s Senior Vice President Digital Portfolio at FedEx. So welcome, Jason.

Jason Brenner (00:17)
So great to be here, thanks for having me.

Shelley E. Kohan (00:19)
Absolutely. So I know FedEx just came out with their big return survey and I was really fascinated by it because it shows a lot of AI-powered support along with the consumer growing demand of no box, no label options. So I’d love to get some insight from you about that and also love to hear about returns overall. So coming out of Christmas, I don’t know if you, it’s only what, three weeks?

⁓ But can you tell us a little bit about how returns wore this Christmas volume wise compared to last year or expectations as a starting point?

Jason Brenner (00:57)
You know, we’re still in it, but the returns volume is actually meeting expectations. ⁓ Our volume was up slightly year over year from a ⁓ overall shipping perspective, and returns are ⁓ trending in line with that volume increase. But for us, what we’re really focused on is improving and empowering our customers.

to make sure that that returns experience is great for their consumers. And we’re doing that through improving visibility, simplifying the experience, and pretty excited to see how that’s panning out this peak season and post-peak season. So excited to talk more about that.

Shelley E. Kohan (01:41)
interesting is that, ⁓

so the survey showed that like 53 % of consumers found AI, quote unquote, customer service, more satisfying than human agents. And I think that’s pretty cool and remarkable because I’m not sure the consumer’s quite there yet with AI agents.

tell me a little bit about that and ⁓ how is that working? How are they becoming more comfortable with this technology?

Jason Brenner (02:06)
It’s so funny you picked that out. To me, that was one of the most surprising things that we found in that survey as well in the research we did. I take during returns, most customers really just want quick, straightforward answers. You think about your experience ⁓ doing a returns process. What are you looking for? You’re looking for what are the steps? What’s the timing? What’s the status? And AI power tools are getting better literally by the week.

at delivering information as quickly as possible and doing so consistently and doing so in a human tone and doing so that’s grounded in trustworthy data. So from our perspective, it’s less about AI, it’s less about the technology itself, it’s more about how do you just keep pushing the envelope on reducing friction, driving speed to resolution or speed to information. ⁓ So when customers can get good answers right away, ⁓

the experience just feels easier and customers or consumers feel more in control. So I think that’s kind of what that 53 % number was getting at, to your point.

Shelley E. Kohan (03:13)
So what I find really interesting is that, you know, I always said, you know, consumers have always been a little bit ahead of retailers, right? And then the retailers kind of adapt to where consumers are. But I think with returns, it’s the, it’s opposite. Like I think the industry has been ahead of the consumer offering like no box return labels and that type of thing. So customers are used to packing stuff up and dropping it off at FedEx already in an envelope or a box or a shipping label. But what’s also interesting in your survey,

this year is consumers are actually more familiar with no return labels and no boxes. So tell me a little bit about that.

Jason Brenner (03:52)
Yeah, I think we saw that ⁓ the familiar familiarity. I messed up that word, but ⁓ with no box, no label returns jumped from 37 % to 48 % in just one year, ⁓ which is a big jump. And I think it goes back to the when you’re prioritizing work, you’re really thinking about how are you driving the value prop for customers and consumers and it’s oriented around experience. So.

If nearly half of US customers say they’re now familiar with no box, no label returns and the usage continues to increase year over year, the reason for that is once shoppers try it, ⁓ they understand how convenient it is, how low stress it can be, ⁓ and they don’t need to think about printing a label, packaging an item, taping it up. They simply need the item, the QR code, and they need to find a location where FedEx ⁓ has a ⁓ lot of locations that are really conveniently placed for the

broad ⁓ for most of the US population. So we’re pushing the envelope on experience, on convenience, ⁓ and consumers adapt onto that. So that’s where you see ⁓ that adoption curve really increasing year over year. I’d say when we look ahead, ⁓ we expect more retailers to keep scaling these solutions and continue to look for ways

to simplify the returns process. So ⁓ we’re going to continue pushing the boundaries of that value prop for sure.

Shelley E. Kohan (05:28)
think it’s great and it certainly makes it a lot easier. And the other thing from a retail perspective, if you think about it, if you’re relying on the customer to box it, label it, pack it, you know that’s gonna add time into that return getting back in the system as opposed to your code product and you go to the FedEx place drop off because that has to shorten the return time. is that like, are you seeing that?

Jason Brenner (05:53)
Yeah, and the fun thing is get to, know, our job is to, again, to push the value prop convenience, simplicity, ⁓ price, experience, etc. And then, yes, these operational considerations are second order, sort of second order effects from that. But then our job is to plan and react to it. And again, back to the value of AI and data. ⁓ Any changes that come

from our offerings that we create that impact our operations, we then have to study those ⁓ and see what the impacts are to our operations, to our retailers’ operations, and then plan for it and react. But the important thing is starting with the customer and starting with the consumer, and then managing the downstream effects of it, and ideally turning those downstream effects into areas of differentiation.

if you could capture it, study it, and plan for it, and change your operations around it. So we are seeing it, and we’re adapting. We like to say that we have the smarter supply chain, and we help our customers make their supply chain smarter. ⁓ So this sort of falls in line with that, from my perspective.

Shelley E. Kohan (07:09)
that’s great. And I think for retailers, if you can shave off two or three days from that return, getting back into their quote unquote inventory, that’s got to be tremendous for them.

Jason Brenner (07:18)
Absolutely, absolutely yes.

Shelley E. Kohan (07:21)
So the other thing that’s really interesting is that, know, consumers, when they’re doing in-person returns, they have a very, very high confidence level. And so I’m not sure it’s as high with shipping. So there’s like a gap between the confidence going in and returning something and the gap between shipping it out. So what is FedEx doing to kind of close that confidence gap between the two?

Jason Brenner (07:25)
you

Really, really good question and very top of mind for me right now. ⁓ So where does confidence come from? It comes from predictability from visibility ⁓ and visibility has to be grounded in sort of a simple UX, ⁓ simple communications, all of that. So whether a return happens in person ⁓ or through the mail, customers just want to know where their item is and what’s happening next. So our focus is on

reliable delivery, clear tracking, proactive, thoughtful updates throughout the post purchase journey. ⁓ So customers and consumers can easily see the status of their return and trust that it’s moving forward as expected. And that has to apply for returns and for shipping. So ⁓ those are two end to end journeys that we look at constantly and say, how do we drive

incremental improvements, then how do we also radically transform the experience to make it simpler and more trustworthy for our customers and consumers? ⁓ I think we did a lot of great work there going into Peak, and we’re seeing some of the output of that right now. ⁓ But we also have a lot more work to do. if you’re driving towards visibility and simplicity, it’s kind of like your work is never done.

⁓ So there’s always opportunities for us to improve there for sure.

Shelley E. Kohan (09:14)
And I think Jason, you’re right. I think what consumers worry about is that when they do a shipping return, it goes into a black hole. And then they have to sit and wait and wait and wait, right? And so I love getting those notifications saying, hey, we received your return. Hey, your return’s being processed. Because now I don’t have to worry about it. It’s one less thing I have to worry about as a consumer. So I think that’s great.

Jason Brenner (09:21)
Yeah.

Absolutely, I mean the key to great customer experiences is exactly what you just described. Put yourself in the seat of the customer and say what friction points come up, what creates stress, what creates unknown or anxiety, and then how do you solve for those and then even delight within those moments. So that’s what a lot of our team is focused on here.

Shelley E. Kohan (09:59)
Well, I think the other thing that’s really on the top of mind for consumers is this idea of businesses, retailers are now, some of them are starting to charge for returns. I think it’s like 40 % or something based on the information that was collected from your survey, it is 40%. But so that’s it, that’s a lot of businesses that are starting to charge for returns. And when you think about it, it makes sense because with all the other cost pressures, high labor costs, tariff costs,

Jason Brenner (10:00)
out.

Shelley E. Kohan (10:28)
cost of goods increases, et cetera, I can see how retailers are finding it that they have to do that for some customers. But what’s happening is consumers are actually making a purchasing decision based on whether or not they can actually make a return. And this is more so online than in-store shopping. So what are you doing to kind of balance ⁓ that in terms of customers making choices about

how what the return policy is based on what they’re purchasing.

Jason Brenner (11:00)
Yeah, let me let me add to your point there. So you mentioned 40 % of businesses are now charging for returns and on top of that specifically 59 % of consumers avoid retailers that charge for a return. So this is this is this is the conundrum. So that’s what our survey just kind of came out with recently. So we really encourage retailers to be intentional and transparent. Convenience.

Shelley E. Kohan (11:15)
Wow.

Jason Brenner (11:28)
does not mean that the retailer has to absorb every cost. ⁓ But I think what really breaks down the trust is surprises in the experience. ⁓ So again, being intentional ⁓ and being transparent with your customers upfront, ⁓ we see nets the best results from a lifetime value perspective. ⁓ You’re not just trying to win this purchase.

You’re also trying to win the lifetime value of the customer and the repeat rate and delivering on a strong customer experience. So ⁓ I think, again, we see trust breaking down the most on when surprises come up later in the journey at the time of return. So ⁓ the data shows that shoppers value that simplicity, that clarity. I guess when policies clearly communicate and are easy to understand,

then retailers have more flexibility to manage the costs without jeopardizing experiences. So ⁓ I don’t think there’s a silver bullet here. This is about balancing your customer experience versus the reality and the economics of your business. But the most important thing is being transparent with the customers.

Shelley E. Kohan (12:44)
No, that’s great. And let’s talk for a minute about the bad actors, the bad actors meaning fraudulent returns, because I do believe that there are sometimes when you have bad actors that are trying to return things fraudulently. And when you talk about businesses, they have stricter policies, shorter windows, and they’re trying to of curtail that fraudulent. So are you able to use ⁓ AI? How can you help retailers with the fraudulent returns?

Jason Brenner (12:59)
Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (13:14)
concerns.

Jason Brenner (13:15)
I appreciate the line of questioning because these stricter policies, the tighter ⁓ charging, all that reflects real pressures that retailers are facing to manage costs and returns fraud, is very, very real. ⁓ But I’d say net, our perspective is that that friction, that may be healthy friction, should be very targeted rather than universal.

⁓ And the good thing is the visibility and the data are key ⁓ to enable that and they’re becoming more and more mature. So what do I mean by that? ⁓ I’ll give you a very specific example. We support our customers by providing tooling that improves shipping tracking. One example of that is picture proof of delivery. ⁓ So that shows retailers and customers exactly when and where a package was delivered. ⁓

That extra visibility helps retailers reduce fraudulent replacement claims and associated costs. And there’s also in that process, ⁓ we are rolling out more and more ⁓ data points to help validate that the shipment was delivered, like GPS proof of delivery, ⁓ attempted proof of delivery. ⁓ All these data points add up within the retailer’s arsenal to help validate ⁓

that the delivery was made, the attempt was made, it was made to a specific address. ⁓ In addition to that, we are rolling out some enhanced post-purchase digital offerings coming very soon, ⁓ which will continue to simplify the returns process for both customers and businesses. So we have in-market, live, ⁓ we’re using predictive models, we’re using enhanced data points, ⁓ and we’re furthering that value prop.

which is really exciting to empower our customers to reduce their incident of fraud.

Shelley E. Kohan (15:16)
That’s great. And so can you, I know you probably can’t tell me what you’re doing yet because you haven’t announced it. Is that a good guess on my part?

Jason Brenner (15:23)
That’s a good guess. We’re announcing something

very, soon ⁓ regarding a post-purchase solution and a post-purchase suite. Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (15:30)
That’s awesome.

Okay, so my quote, I know you could probably answer this question. So when I think about the fraudulent returns, I’m with you. think creating all these rules and policies for the 10 % that affect the 90 % that are good returns, you know, just doesn’t make sense to me. So you have to figure out a different way to deal with that 10%. But in this new stuff that you’re doing, the predictive analytics using AI, that type of thing, do you think that you’re able to more quickly make a decision about returns that are fraudulent, which are not

thereby, you know, what we want to do is reduce the amount of time it takes to authenticate a return.

Jason Brenner (16:10)
And that’s exactly what we’re doing. What we’re doing is we’re providing our retailers, our customers ⁓ with more data ⁓ and showing them, here’s the use cases where others are identifying, this is how you leverage this data to make informed decisions. ⁓ We are not in the business of singling out individual customers or anything along those lines. We’re in the business of…

Hey, we have a tremendous amount of data at our fingertips. ⁓ Our network produces two petabytes of data a day, which is really crazy on the 17 million packages that we deliver per day. So we’re in the business of saying what data do we have available? Where are we seeing folks leverage that data to make informed decisions to improve their KPIs? ⁓ So that’s where we keep ⁓ trying to push the boundaries on.

Shelley E. Kohan (16:44)
Ha ha.

No, that’s great,

that’s great. And I’m going to impress you with my knowledge of petabytes and gigabytes. Isn’t a petadite a million gigabytes?

Jason Brenner (17:14)
I believe so, yes. Yeah. It’s a tiny effort for yes, it’s it. It means a ton of data we had. We have. We have some funny stats on, know, it’s it’s you know the classic the football fields, etc. It’s to the moon back, etc. But I’m forgetting the specifics of it, but net it’s a ton of data. But but the data in itself is the most important thing is what you do with it.

Shelley E. Kohan (17:15)
or something like that. Yeah. So that’s a lot. That’s a ton of data.

Yeah. So the other. Yeah.

Of course, definitely. So the other thing is, I don’t anticipate, and reading your survey, I don’t think you anticipate either. I don’t anticipate consumer behavior changing and returns becoming either obsolete or less. think the behavior we’ve seen, returns are going to continue. But what can change and what you guys are working on is how we deal with returns to reduce the friction points and to keep…

inventory in our systems at a more, at a quicker rate, right?

Jason Brenner (18:14)
Exactly. I mean, if I look at my own house, I don’t think returns are decreasing. I think from our survey, it showed that 40 % of consumers expect to return the same amount or more in the next year. yeah, think returns are just becoming increasingly a routine part of doing business, which means that we, as the supply chain providers and retailers, have to design for them intentionally.

⁓ It’s no longer an anomaly. ⁓ It’s just part of doing business. I think what that means for us is the experience has to be more connected. It has to be more predictable. It has to be more data-driven. ⁓ And it has to, back to the point of ⁓ transparency, ⁓ it has to reflect the voice and the values of the retailer ⁓ if the retailers want it to drive lifetime value for them.

So I think, yeah, it’s just, it’s a part of doing business.

Shelley E. Kohan (19:16)
I love all the stuff

that you’re working on and I love the fact, Jason, that you are absolutely putting the consumer in the center of this equation, which is what I think you have to do. So what are you most excited about in terms of designing for the emotional experience of returns, not the logistical one?

Jason Brenner (19:36)
Yeah, I think if you see in our language, it’s oriented around when we talk about our no box, no label solution called FedEx Easy Return, it’s all about convenience, being straightforward, being stress free. So you’re hitting on the point around the emotional experience for returns. All of that is very intentional. ⁓ Returns are often the last experience that a customer has with your brand. ⁓ So how that moment feels really matters.

It could be make or break whether or not they repeat with you and all retailers and brands are orienting around lifetime value of a customer, which a key part of that is that our customers repeating with us. Are they buying? Are they coming back to us again and again? And do they have a positive experience? So. You mentioned emotion. I that’s exactly right. We have to make this process simple. We have to set expectations clearly. We have to make sure customers feel informed.

We have to make the stress and the anxiety of a return, as you described, sort of like the black box. We have to make that go away. ⁓ So the emotional experience plays a big role in whether the customers come back to the retailer and the brand time and time again. So we think about it a lot.

Shelley E. Kohan (20:50)
That

is so true. Absolutely. So I’m going to close with two thoughts. One is I had a favorite retailer that I would buy from every single year for my whole family, my husband, my kids and me. And I had a bad return experience with them. I have not shopped them in seven years. I refuse to shop them.

Jason Brenner (21:04)
Yeah.

my goodness.

Shelley E. Kohan (21:10)
So when you say there’s an emotional attachment, that’s what happens and I won’t bore you with the details, but I’ve never shopped there ever again. I won’t even wear their stuff in my house anymore. But… ⁓

Jason Brenner (21:21)
Yeah, that’s That’s what we so you know

we are trying to make sure that we empower our customers that that doesn’t happen. ⁓ Yeah, you unfortunately. ⁓ When you you think about NPS, there’s you know this delight moments. There’s there’s the detraction moments and both. They’re both equally powerful, so we have to sell for both.

Shelley E. Kohan (21:31)
Of course!

That’s right. And the last thing, here’s a fun fact about me that you don’t know that will impress you, is I’ve actually toured your Memphis facility back in, yeah, I’ve been there. I toured it with your team. I’m gonna say 2004 or five-ish when I was with Saks Fifth Avenue. So I had a great experience and I really enjoyed looking at the facility there in Memphis.

Jason Brenner (22:07)
Yeah, it’s an unbelievable facility. What do you think? were your impressions?

Shelley E. Kohan (22:11)
I’m blown away about the amount of packaging proficiency and efficiency that takes place in that warehouse. It’s just unbelievable. I should say multiple warehouses, but the whole logistics and the planes and it was quite fascinating for sure.

Jason Brenner (22:26)
Yeah, I mean it really blows your mind to see it. I hope I get this right because we’re being recorded, but I believe 1.5 million packages goes through that facility every evening every night. 1.5 million packages every night through the Memphis Hub. ⁓ It’s just mind blowing ⁓ when you think about the scale of what we deliver. It’s amazing.

Shelley E. Kohan (22:51)
It is amazing and also I got

to visit Graceland too so that was fun too.

Jason Brenner (22:58)
That’s an added perk of coming down to Memphis.

Shelley E. Kohan (23:01)
It is. But thank you, Jason, so much for being here and telling us a little bit about what’s headed for customer returns. And we look forward to what’s being announced soon.

Jason Brenner (23:11)
Awesome. Likewise, speak to you soon. Bye.

Shelley E. Kohan (23:14)
Thank you.

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NRF Trade Talks: Five More Unique Perspectives https://therobinreport.com/nrf-trade-talks-five-more-unique-perspectives/ Fri, 23 Jan 2026 05:01:00 +0000 https://therobinreport.com/?p=123644 92Shelley caught up with five more innovators at NRF 2026 to get their takes on the retail industry and an outlook for this year. Their conversations ranged from the connected store and talent development to geolocation analytics and the need for personalization.]]> 92

Last week, Shelley caught up with five more innovators at NRF 2026 to get their takes on the retail industry and an outlook for this year. Their conversations ranged from the connected store and talent development to geolocation analytics and the need for personalization.  Listen and learn from the experts.

Matthew Cry transformed his retail leadership experience by leveraging a better way to engage with customers and product with daily insights. He believes it is an exciting time for the physical store and advocates having the tools to measure metrics that matter and hold management accountable through a connected store strategy with a shopper engagement platform. “People want to come into your store, they want product to be there, and they want to take that product home. Make that path to purchase super easy for them. But if you don’t know what they’re doing in your store, how can you ever make it easy for them?” He adds, “The physical store is the pulse on everything that’s happening, connecting your inventory, shoppers, store teams, what’s being bought, and what’s not being bought. So, we’re thinking when a customer is in that moment looking for something, we should be able to show her other products that are available in her size, and we should be saving the sales associate time from not having to do that manually.”

Kimberly Minor’s work focuses on the workforce. She explains there is no longer a direct linear career path: “People are being removed from the pipeline; so, who’s benefitting, and what does that mean for the future? We have young people who are so talented, fresh, excited and passionate about what’s next. But we also have an economic situation that’s going to affect workforce development. How do we create pathways to new jobs, and how do we prepare people to be flexible so that they are ready when new opportunities open?” She adds that the most important leadership skill is curiosity. She says that companies and leaders need curiosity to keep up with consumers who are thinking differently. “If you’re curious about what your future could look like, then you should be curious about what other opportunities are available. And that’s great for the candidates, but it’s also a message for the companies because so many depend on AI as an HR tool.”

As a professor at FIT and Parsons School of Design, Marie Driscoll distills the underlying trend in retail to the range of AI tools that are aiding the retail practice. Using Dick’s Sporting Goods as a case study, she says it is a model for the next American department store. She explains, “It is a reflection of the culture and what’s important to the customer. The more they appeal to women who are buying for their children, the more their sales are going to grow. With a focus on sports, more broadly, the focus is on wellness.” She says they are well-positioned to become even more exciting for shoppers around the country, strengthened by their real focus on their team. She quotes CEO Ed Stack, “The higher you go in your corporate ladder, the more you should listen and not talk.” Her NRF observations range from Mango and LVMH to the K-shaped economy and the challenges of real estate and the luxury market. From a consumer perspective, going into 2026, she says, “I think the consumer is sitting in the best seat. She has so many choices, and the retailers that are creating valuable services for their customers will win. Otherwise, as Robin Lewis would always say, ‘You can’t cut your way to profitability. It’s a race to the bottom.’ And it’s that’s horrible.” She adds, “So, to sum it up, value is very important going into 2026. Creating a community is critical. In-store experiential retail bonds the consumer to the brand. And of course, online is super important; make it frictionless so it’s easy to connect what is online with what’s in store.”

Dominic Miserandino explores what makes the customer experience joy; he says experiential is a human connection.  As a connector, he adds, “I think we have evolved into a non-experiential, transactional retail culture, meaning DoorDash, press the button; Uber Eats, press the button. And the consumer is saying, yeah, that’s awesome.” As an antidote, he adds, “You have to seek the emotional connections of humanity. So, retailers need to think about how they can humanize at scale.”  He adds, “From the retail media side, we’re connecting retailers to the media and helping further their careers. On the tech side, we connect tech companies to these retailers, so Nexus is the connection among them all.”

Gary Sankary’s work on mapping and geo-spatial analytics helps retailers understand why things happen where they do inside and outside stores—everything from the global all the way down to the neighborhood. He says, “We’re all about maps; the scale is irrelevant. It’s all about taking data and applying it to the map to provide retailers with critical insights on localization and personalization.” He explains the depth of data reveals information on the lifestyle of the people around that store, where the people who shop in that area come from, product performance, loss prevention, and data about competitors. As a contrarian, he says, “I’m going to be an outlier here and say Agentic AI is not going to innovate; what drives retail success is innovation and design. What AI is helping us do is expand the scope of the things that we can look at. So, I can bring even more data sets and find correlations that I might not have stumbled across.”

Special Guests

Matthew Cyr, CEO, Founder, Crave Retail
Kimberly Minor, CEO Co-Founder, WOC Retail Alliance (WOCRA)
Marie Driscoll, TRR Contributor, Professor, FIT, Parsons School of Design
Dominic Miserandino, Founder and CEO, RTM Nexus
Gary Sankary, Retail Industry Lead, Esri

I am so thrilled we’re here at the NRF show in January in New York City. I’m thrilled to be sitting with you in person, Matthew. Oh my gosh. I’m sure we do our virtual podcasting and stuff, but I have them in person. Well, thank you for having me and thank you for all the work that we did with the Crave Retail Radicals. It’s been super fun to acknowledge some of the best people in the space. So here we are again, another year at NRF. Another year at NRF. And you’re absolutely right. I love recognition. It’s the best thing about our industry is recognizing the top people.

work that people do. And now we’re in a big room of all the changemakers. I know, wow, there’s a lot going on out there. But what I’d like to focus on first of all, Matthew Sear, CEO, founder of Crave Retail. And I’d love to talk to you. So one of the things that a lot of retailers come to me and ask me is, so there’s all this, obviously, there’s so much technology here, AI, genetic AI, and all these things. But a lot of the retailers are asking, you know,

How can I then connect all this in that shopping journey? So they’re looking for this kind of connected experience with the store. Because the consumer doesn’t care how many things you’re doing behind the scenes. They just want that experience when they walk through the doors. And I know, Craig Retail, you are a pioneer in the space. You just launched H &M Dubai. congratulations Yeah, an amazing visit. Amazing brand, amazing visit.

It’s so cool to see so many different brands check out the experience and talk about, it actually works and it’s remarkable and the experience it drives. And they’re asking about, you do this insight and can you get this data point? And we get to show them and they’re like, this is what we’ve been waiting for for so long. So yeah, it’s been a really great few months, great several years. We’re seven years in business now.

And you work with some of the top brands, Victoria’s Secret, Unparma. Yeah, yeah. And we have a lot more that you guys are going to learn more about this year. I wish I could share more. But once you visit those stores, you’ll know it’s crazy. I love it. Yeah. So can you talk us through this connected store idea? Yeah. Well, I’ll I think I’ll take us back. Right. So where did where did my my my origin in retail start? A good friend of mine asked me if I could manage an Abercrombie and Fitch store.

And at the time I thought, I’m not sure if I really want to get into retail and manage an Abercrombie and Fitch store. just seemed like a lot as a 20 year old kid. I did it and I loved it. And I fell in love. I worked with Abercrombie and Fitch for a couple of years. I worked for Sketchers for seven years. I got the opportunity to move overseas and manage over 300 stores with Sketchers. And one of the things that always got to me was I would get a call during my quarterly

updates with our team to say, hey, here’s what performance was last quarter. We missed conversion rate or we did this or this happened. And it was always reactive, right? We’re sort of always saying, okay, what can we do moving forward? And then we would implement a strategy that couldn’t be measured in any way. And we would go on flights every single week to say, are you guys doing what we said? How’s it working? We would then see at the end of the month,

Here’s a conversion rate, here’s a basket size, here was a sell through, always reacting. And I thought, this doesn’t make sense, right? One, I shouldn’t be flying to go see stores that were obviously perfectly equipped to look as they should during my visit. But I thought as a store manager, as a district manager, my responsibility is every minute with every shopper. I should know exactly at any moment if we’re up

if we’re doing the right things with our customers, if we’re introducing the right products, if our performance is low, let’s just say fitting room traffic, or if we’re not engaging with enough customers, or if they’re not trying on enough products. If I have that insight daily, I would actually have the tools to impact the metric that I’m being held accountable to. And so for me, when a lot of different leaders say, what’s the connected store strategy? It’s actually…

developing a store, physical store, that’s got a pulse of everything that’s happening between your inventory, your shoppers, your store teams, what’s being bought, what’s not being bought. So you can respond to it in real time. And I feel like we’re, we’re finally entering into an era where brands are maturing a lot of this infrastructure, right? I know I’m kind of rambling on here, but I think this is like an awesome moment to be at NRF, to be in physical stores because

If you think about RFID, everyone’s chatting about RFID. So if you’re not here, that’s the theme, RFID and AI. It’s really getting blended right now. We didn’t even know the product in our store. So this idea of actually being proactive with inventory information, I couldn’t even do it then. But today, many brands have matured their RFID developments. They have the right infrastructure in place. They have foot traffic counting.

They have computer vision investments. They have task management that’s monitoring how store associates are performing. They got solutions like Crave. Everything’s now in a spot to be fully connected and we have to just work together to connect it all. I remember you told me this story and I forget the term he used, but when you have a customer coming into the store and they’re looking for something specific and if you don’t have that specific size 12 red

wide-legged gene or whatever, they leave. And you never know what. So you told me this story about a series of options and choices. Can you kind of walk through that example of what that looks like in today’s connected shopping journey? Yeah. Well, look, if you have RFID today, you’ve done the first step. I call RFID like a mirror. You finally know exactly who you are. You know what inventory you have in your store.

But the mirror doesn’t yet know if you’re wearing the wrong shirt with that pair of denim, right? It just says you’ve got a shirt on and you’ve got denim. You’ve you’ve done that part. But we have a few brands now that are really leaning into what we’re calling our out of stock demand. So this is you. Let’s just say you walk up to a denim wall, which RFID says, hey, we’ve got everything that we should have in stock and you’re looking for a certain size. They don’t have that size.

Now you’re either chasing a store team member, you’re out looking for the product somewhere else, maybe you’re trying to think about it, you’re on your phone seeing if it’s online, you walk out. You talked about not knowing information about shoppers. If you think about it, seven out of 10 shoppers are leaving your store every single day and you don’t know anything about them. And the three that do, the 70 to 30 % analysis, the 30 % that do already made a bunch of decisions.

So for Crave, what we’re thinking is, when Shelly’s in that moment looking for something, we should immediately be able to show her other products that are available in our size. We should be able to show her similar items, maybe nearby stores, in that very moment of recognizing that friction so we get you into that product. We should be saving the associate time from not having to do that manually, which computers can do that, tell you what’s in stock or not immediately.

but the brands can actually get this out of stock demand, which complements that RFID investment. One of the retailers we worked with learned that a portion of their stores were getting a lot of demand for double extra larges and extra larges. Now they’re planning, I’ve worked in planning and merchandising for a couple of years at Skechers. We would have just been celebrating a positive sell through and we just would have been replenishing as we normally would. Now we know you’re a

you might be selling through, but you missed out on selling an extra 40 units at this store because you didn’t have enough of the thing that people needed. There’s no way to capture that unless you’re directly connecting with your shoppers on the sales floor. think, you know, selfishly, Crave is a shopper engagement platform. I really believe that is the missing part to a fully connected store because we’re going to get you that insight into what shopper behavior is.

And then we’re going to help you learn did that influence to a purchase? Did that not? Did it change your buying strategy? Should you rethink about how your assortment is? Do you have to do better training? So much to learn from understanding what your shoppers are doing, whether they buy or not buy. love that. And I think it’s what I love about the Crate solution is the sophistication of if I go in and I want a, we’ll use purple, I want a purple turtleneck. You don’t know if I really want a turtleneck.

other color or if I really want purple. So by giving me the choice of here are other turtlenecks not in purple and here are other shirts in purple, now I can make a decision based on is it really the turtleneck I’m looking for or the color. And we don’t know that when a customer walks in unless they have a dialogue or they have something, right? Yeah, yeah, 100%. And it’s, stores, they’re not getting easier to shop right now.

because a lot of times they’re just not getting easier to staff. It’s a challenging market. You see a lot of stores, you know, trying to ask, do we, how do we give you that customer experience with less people? It’s really hard, right? And so I think we’re kind of at this point where you only can optimize the store teams so much. Put Shelly in control of that decision. Don’t make the assumption for her, put out on a hypothesis, figure out what she’s interested in, let her discover and curate.

right there in your stores in the most easy way possible and then get her trying it on. Because there’s nothing better than getting her into the clothes, trying it on and seeing what it’s like. And when you look at the Gen Z and Gen Alphas, and they’re coming into the shopping environment, they’re expecting to have a very easy, seamless, automated kind of answers to the solutions that they’re looking for when they walk in, right? Yeah. I think today we’re at a different point.

Everybody wants that. Right? mean, I’m sorry, but if you think that every shopper wants to have a highly engaged one-on-one experience, they don’t. Right? And those 30 % that do, great. I would bet most brands who understand that about their shopper base, they’ve got it served. But 70 % of your customers are coming in and they just want to explore and they want to learn about products. They want to understand your story. They want to make it very easy. We are all time starved today for whatever.

Reasons we’ve created we’re on a mission and if it doesn’t go perfectly we’re out right so we I think for every shopper today of all ages we have a really strong responsibility to say how do we help them control their own outcome how do we give them the tools in real time to just Help them have an experience they deserve and frankly you think about e-commerce Because they were tracking what shoppers were doing they continue to optimize that for you

The success of e-commerce has been because they know every step of your journey and they can help you make it easier. Maybe sometimes they want you to slow down to curate a whole outfit with the denim you’re trying on, but we can’t do that in physical retail. So how do we create a highly personalized, convenient experience if we’re not having any shopper touch points measured and understood as shoppers are going through it? You can have computer vision on your ceiling, but you still don’t know if Shelley needs

a red or a purple, right, a small or a large. You can know someone’s dwelling and waiting, but what do you do? You have to have touch points that shoppers can finally act on and we will be able to give you the ability to stitch those sessions together so you can finally have a digital layer of physical retail just like e-commerce does. And I think that’ll allow us to really evolve the in-store experience. I think the brands are ready, I think they’re definitely ready. I think the other complexity layer is that

the shopper isn’t consistent 100 % of the time. What I mean by that is sometimes when I go into a store, I want to get in and out, I’m on a time crunch, I have to do something with the family, and other times I want to chat with someone. So you can’t do this solution that always delivers the same for every customer because we change. We change our shopping behaviors based on the situation, our time. Yeah, yeah. That’s where I think

you know, this connected store finally gives you a pulse of that. You’re going to have, you’re going to know soon which shoppers are in here as loyal customers who are in here every other week and whether they should have a more high touch personalized experience. And you’re going to know the other one who just likes to come in your store because we’re getting close to a world where we’re going to know Shelly walked to the door and we’re going to know that she checked out and every time it’s 15 minutes, we know Shelly walks in and out.

Right? And Jenny, on the other hand, we know she likes to take an hour every single time. And she likes to talk to people because she’s one of those customers that is always requesting service, asking for help. We know what kind of service she wants. So this connected store that has a pulse of what’s happening gives us the tools, gives the store teams the front line, the tools to say, I feel equipped to do my tasks that I’m asked to.

support the right customers the right way and know that I’ve got supporting technology on the sales floor that can answer some of the basic questions so I can do my job well, which is be a human, have a human conversation with Jenny, understand her lifestyle, figure out what she really loves and wants while meanwhile, Shelly can go up to a denim wall, tap, tap, get it in her hands immediately, get out the door. We have a world now where we can create that flexibility.

That’s great. Well, first I want to say thank you, Matthew, for creating your company because you and I are very similar in that we just want to make retailers better at what they do. We want to kind of make the industry better. we care a lot. So we do. care a lot. I know we’re expecting a lot of great big announcements from Crave Retail over the next year. Anything else you want to share with us? You know, just keep testing.

You know to anybody watching keep testing and trying new things in your stores. Your customers want to see freshness. They want to see something new. They want convenience. They want help. Yes of course Crave can definitely help you with that but I’m just very excited that we have an opportunity to work with some of the best brands in the world. We’re going to continue to learn what we don’t know every day. We’re going to implement the things that just make sense. Be practical. Right. That’s why I tell my team every day. Retail is not that complicated.

People want to come into your store, they want product to be there, and they want to take that product home. Make that path to purchase super easy for them. But if you don’t know what they’re doing in your store, how can you ever make it easy for them? go back to the basics of retail 101. Make it easy to find a lot of product. Make sure your shoppers are servicing them, and make sure you’re able to measure the outcome of those changes.

awesome well thank you Matthew so much. Crave Retail and thanks for the Crave Retail radicals this year. Thank you for having me here. Exciting. Thank you all. Awesome.


Hi, welcome to Reektail Unwrapped Live. I’m so excited that I actually get to see you in person. I know. It’s been what, a year since I saw you person, a year, yeah. And we’ve connected virtually, but it’s always good to be in person. That’s right. So this is Kimberly Miner. She is CEO of Wokra. So welcome. Thank you. Thank you, Shelly. It’s always good to talk to you. I love having you here and I love the fact you did lead like her.

and also even on my podcast. But today we’re at the NRAP show in, actually the weather’s not bad in New York right now in January. No, it’s not bad. I will tell you, I got here this morning around eight o’clock and I was really shocked. I walked out and when the doors opened to the hotel, it was like this burst of cold air. But then when I stepped out, I was like, it’s not bad. The sun is coming out. This is great.

This is, think this is the best weather I’ve ever seen in 30 years. Yeah. Well, the last three years have been painful. It’s been so cold that, you know, if your nose runs, it freezes before it hits the tip. Like it’s, it’s been bad. So it’s great. And you can tell because it is packed. is so busy this year. That’s right. Yeah. It’s really busy. I’d love to talk you a little bit. I know you’re very busy and your schedules packs a first. you. Of course. For spending time with me. Of course. But I want to talk about the work.

because I know you’re doing a lot of work there. So what is going on with today’s workforce? What are you seeing out there? You know, that is a hot, hot topic. It’s a hot topic for a few different reasons. So here are some of the things that happening in the workforce. So we know that at the beginning of the year with the administration change, there were lot of changes to policies and there were preemptive changes so that there weren’t issues with certain companies.

All of that affected the workforce. It affected the workforce in that even though we’re still at a relatively low 4 % unemployment, there are certain groups that have surged in unemployment. And so one of those groups is black women. Black women are currently at 7.5 % unemployment according to the US labor statistics. And that happened because they overpopulate in government jobs.

they overpopulate in frontline jobs. And so how does that affect, right? Well, we know how it affects in the government, but then frontline jobs, we keep hearing about AI, right? And when we think about retail and we think about AI and you go to the store, how many times are you in line? Because it’s self checkout. That’s right. Right. And so those are things that we think about. We think about that with WACRA because you have to create this pipeline.

So people are being removed from the pipeline, who’s benefiting? And what does that mean for the future? And so, that’s what we wanna talk about with Workforce. And then in addition to my work with WACRA, I’m also executive director at the Ohio State. The Ohio Glad you’re so exciting. And by the way, congratulations on that. That was last year, right? No, it was July. July, yeah, last year. that’s And so…

That’s also workforce development. And so we have these young people who are so talented and so fresh and excited and passionate about what’s next. And then we also have the economic situation that’s going to affect, again, workforce development. So how do we create, I think this is at the heart of all of it, how do we create pathways to jobs that aren’t traditional but exist?

and how do we prepare people to be flexible so that they are ready when those opportunities open? And what does that partnership look like with these companies who are going to have those jobs? Because I don’t care the most self-checkout retailer, you still need customer service. Definitely. Right. And so how do we prepare or how do we redirect

those who are out there who are in the workforce so that they’re ready for those new jobs. That’s what keeps me up at night. I think it’s so important. It’s kind of like the human side of technology working together. But one thing I want to go back to what you said, which I think is really important is you talked about making sure people were ready and flexible when things came about. So it’s not this, you know, very direct linear career path.

And you really do have to be open to opportunities as they arrive or come up, right? You do. so yesterday I was part of the executive mentoring with N.R.F. Of you were. I love it. You know, I’ve been in this industry for 30 years and I found it. It wasn’t a path I prepared for. It wasn’t a path that I went to school for.

but it was a path that I was flexible enough that I was able to move into it. And it has served me very well because I was ready. Nothing, you know, I didn’t have fear that, I didn’t study that in a book. I asked questions. I was curious. And so to prepare yourself for that path, this is something I talked to this young people about yesterday. What do you look for? You know, oh, Kimberly, what do you look for? Like what’s the most important skill? The most important skill to me is curiosity.

Absolutely. Curiosity. If you don’t know what you don’t know. Shelly, funny story, I was 10 years into my career. I was at Davis Bridal. I had just gotten to Davis Bridal. was vice president of design. And I had been at Express and Macy’s. And had I been in Foot Locker? I’ve been to Foot Locker. I moved very quickly because, you know, put it in front of me and I’m like,

this Pac-Man, like what can I learn, what can I do? And so I was in a meeting and I was relying on what I knew, but I didn’t know what I didn’t know. And the CEO of David’s Bridal said to me, I’m going to need you to be quiet. He didn’t say it like that. I’m saying it much nicer than he said it, but I’m going to need you to be quiet. Why? He said, because you don’t know what you don’t know. No one had ever said that to me before because

I came into a job and they were expecting you to hit the ground running. He was like, no, you need to learn and I want to know how curious you are so that you can be better when it’s time. And so when I talk to young people or anyone who’s like, what do I do? I’ve been putting in these resumes. I’m not getting the job. So what are you putting the resumes in for? Well, this is what I’ve done. But how do we apply that differently? What questions can you ask?

If you’re curious about what your future could look like, then you should be curious about what other opportunities are available. And if you open yourself up to curiosity, you become more flexible. And who knows what the possibilities are? And that’s great for the candidates, but it’s also a message for the companies. know, so many, because they use AI,

to go through resumes and check that it’s so rigid because it’s AI and AI is not thinking, AI is repetitive. And so companies, leaders, you need that same curiosity because especially with consumers, consumers are changing now. It’s such a dynamic. It’s so dynamic. People are thinking differently. Young people, Gen Z.

What was happening on Tuesday is not happening on Thursday. And you have to think differently. So these companies need to have people in those positions who have that flexibility and aren’t like, it’s just a cookie cutter of what they think the job should be. Right. I think the other thing I’d like to see more women do, especially young leaders, is going back to your flexibility conversation is that a lot of young women

feel like they have to nail every single component of a job description. And when you what you’re saying is a little bit different, which is, you know, be curious. Yeah, you might have three out of five skills, but go for it. Don’t think you have to have that tick box of every skill to apply or to go after jobs. Well, absolutely. I mean, if I use my own like at the beginning of my career. So my degree is in radio, television and film.

I didn’t know that. Yes, I wanted to be Oprah. I did. Oprah. Well, there is only one Oprah. And I discovered that very quickly. But that’s my so and I had a radio show. I did the whole thing. Like I love that part. Like I love it. I right now, you know. So when I was interviewed with Macy’s executive training program, I couldn’t rely on what I knew. So I didn’t have any of the checkboxes, right. But the recruiter

had had enough conversations with me, he was like, you’re kind of, you’re interesting. You know, you have a sense of fashion. You kind of know what’s going on in the marketplace. You should meet some people. And I was open to that. Sure. I’ll meet some people. At first I was like, wait, retail? I can’t work retail. Cause all I knew about retail was stores and I worked part time in stores and like, I might be kind of living out of that. But by being open, I was able to learn and, and

the aptitude, you know, the testing and the interviewing, I showed up as myself and was, I think, confident enough as a young person to say, I don’t know this, but I know that. And so that message is really important to young, especially young women to your point, because most don’t do that. They don’t. They don’t understand what it is to just show up as yourself.

and be okay with asking questions. I learned so much more because I wasn’t trying to be something else. And I think they saw that. And so I just went in as a consumer. And then, you know, if it was time to change the floor, I was like, you know, that’s not selling anymore. I think it’s time for me to do a floor move, right? Or a change. And I would sit with a visual or go to my group manager and say, I want to do a change. And I would, had like,

these models that I would play with because I didn’t know any different. Right. Right. Or I went to the local distributor because Spud McKenzie was the big thing. And I was like, hey, I see young men going to these other stores. What do you have? Spud girls. They like, yeah, like, can they come to Macy’s? Can they come to my young men’s floor? And it just like being curious. I love that. And I don’t. Were you at the keynote today? I was with it.

I mean, there’s so many things I learned from him and I loved his whole leadership and the dynamic. I the diamond. I got to teach the diamond. I wrote that down. But anyway, I’m in org chart. I’m definitely going to do a lecture on the diamond work chart. But one of the things that really kind of stood out to me is when he said, listen, if you have to be the smartest person in the room.

This is not the place for you. And that’s what we’re saying. You don’t have to know all the answers. You don’t have to be the smartest person in the room. It’s the most curious person in room. The one that doesn’t know everything, that really is successful at exporting goods, Right, and you take chances anywhere. One of my jobs was nine West. And at the time I was the SVP of merchandising stores and planning and allocation.

It was weird. But they brought in a gentleman who had been with Clarks. And Bob was wolf. And he intimidated some people. I thought he was the coolest guy ever. Like, I really did to this day. Because if you were in it, so was he. And he would come to my sales meetings.

He was kind of like a consultant because he had done this for so long and they wanted to make sure, you And so I said in one of my meetings, said, oh my God, I don’t want to be the smartest person in the world. Can somebody please, and after the meeting, he said to me, he was like,

you’re gonna go far because you get it. He said, I think you do need to make some changes to your team because they are depending on you to be the smartest person in the room. So you don’t really have any leaders. Yeah, that’s so interesting. Yeah. So I want to ask you, I want to move to a different topic. Yeah. Okay. Have to say this because I know it’s all over the N.R.F. show this year. A.I. A.I. A.I. So let’s talk about A.I. and maybe how that relates to the workforce. Well, I think

Obviously AI is coming and it’s coming quickly. But if you are a person or even a company who is saying, AI is coming, I’m going to save money and it’s going to replace my team and you’re in retail, I think you’re smoking something. Because you have forgotten what’s the core of this business. The core of the business is the consumer.

And while they’re obviously it’s AI. if you want, if you have a question, if you want data about that group, if you want anything, sure, ask AI. But if you only use AI to make your decisions, then you’re not going to be in business very long, right? Use it as a compliment to the talented people who are there to think, to be dynamic and to be curious, right? What can this information tell me that I don’t know about my

consumer that will complement what I know from being out in the stores or being on a customer service call. If you’re a D2C, you can be there so quickly, get on the phone. Have a call with your consumer and then look at the AI information. When I was, you know, in planning an allocation.

Sunday was terrible because I’d have to get the reports. Oh, I remember going down and getting all those. Yeah, you go down, you get the reports, you’re reading through, right? And you’re drawing conclusions. That time is gone because AI exists. So all of that, you don’t need those reports. Here’s my prompt, here’s the information. But what you do need is you need to be able to interpret and understand that information so that when you’re making decisions.

that is what you can do. Does that mean that your job goes away? It means your job changes and it does mean that some jobs go away, but your job doesn’t have to leave if you’re prepared for that change. And how do you become prepared? It’s a wa-wa-wa. Ohio State just introduced AI training as part of their curriculum, but they just did it.

There are lots of programs out there. I will tell you that you learn the best by doing it and don’t be afraid of it. You know, there’s so many different things. If you want to start with chat GPT, start with chat GPT. I always talk about someone introduced me to perplexity. yeah. Love perplexity. You can ask perplexity anything. And now perplexity even gives me updates. Right. So that keeps me informed. But there’s so many between Gemini and

co-pilot and Claude and you know, I don’t even, it just goes on and on and on and on. You can do graphics, know, Canva is met when it comes to the AI, but there are some other programs out there that are fantastic. You know, I needed a new headshot and I couldn’t get it with my photographer. Seriously? Your headshot’s AI? It’s my actual picture. I love it.

And then I had a picture of my new hair because in my old picture, my face is the same, but my hair is short and it’s not gray. And as you can see, I’m gray. And so I went in and I talked to a photographer and I said, well, how do I do this? Because I don’t have time and I don’t want people to walk past me and not recognize me. And they told me, you know, put both in and just tell them, keep, you know, prompted to this. This is what I want to maintain my face, my spuddle, and replace.

this with that. And so my picture, I mean, it looks like me. It’s just, have new hair, right? And I changed my suit. That’s great. So what excites me most about AI in the workforce is that the what if scenario. So like if you’re working in product development, you’re working in marketing, like if you gave me a marketing task, I would go and do it I would make me give you two or three different versions because that’s all the time allows. Right. But now if you have all this resources,

I can come back with 30 different versions and I can pick out the three best for one campaign, four best for another campaign. And it’s like, all of a sudden now, I can do genius work because I’m not limited by time. That’s exactly right. And if you know how, you can make AI your partner. Because in addition to all those options, you can say, OK, this is my desired outcome. Which do you recommend?

Exactly. And they will give you all those options. It doesn’t tell you which one to choose, but it says, here’s my recommendation out of five options. My recommendations are option three and option five. And here’s why. I love it. It’s the best. I if you’re afraid of it, it’s the worst. No, you got to play with it. I encourage everyone to play with it. Play with it and understand how to make it your friend and your secret sauce.

Right? Like what’s your super power, what’s your AI superpower? So then when you’re walking into interviews, you can say, yes. And in addition to this, here are examples of how I would prompt that or how I might use AI to enhance my role. Because people want someone who’s thinking ahead and is looking for that white space so that they can move their business forward. So use it as an advantage. Don’t be afraid of

I agree. Well, Kimberly, thank you so much. Thank you for having you. And I look forward to seeing you around the show. And of course, I’ll see you hopefully in Columbus soon. Sounds good. Thank you very much.

I am so excited to be here. Shelly Cohen, Retail Unwrapped, I have Marie Driscoll here, which is very exciting, live and in the flesh. Thanks, Shelly. Great to be here with you. I am so happy to have you here. So you don’t need an introduction because you’re so well known in the industry. But Marie Driscoll, founded Driscoll Advisors. But this is the second year we’re here at the NRF show. And this is the second year you’ve been…

a NRF retail voice. Yeah kind of amazing right? I talk too much. No that’s not what it is. It’s your are such a impactful voice for our industry so congratulations on Thank you. you. And of course you’re a retail expert by Rethink Retail and I could go on and on and on.

And selfishly, I am going to say one more thing. That is your professor and you’re helping to educate our next generation of students. So your professor at Fashion Institute of Technology as well as Parsons and… At the City University in New York too. The City of New York, okay, that’s fantastic. So thank you for helping to bring the next generation of leaders forward. Thank

You too, same thing, right? Right back at you. So today, I’d love to, so last night you did a LinkedIn post which was fantastic, talking about what you’re seeing at the show. Yeah, I am like…

I’m so excited coming into 2026, right? It’s like, feel like it’s the new next, right? The next new. Very excited, like we’re moving so rapidly. Last year was such a crazy year with tariffs, right? Like you could never get ahead of yourself. AI was talked about all the time. This year, I think we’re really going to see some AI really at…


and I think we’re finding some really practical ways to use it and it’s not just about the CEO going pushing it down to everyone it’s like he’s saying yes we’re buying in but now pick the right spots for it and is it it’s not necessarily right in each in each function of retail. No you have to pick and choose based on the company right? Right, right. But so like what I heard that I was so excited about was like

you know, at Dick’s Sporting Goods. It’s like, I wrote that they’re the next American department store in a good way, in the fact that so many people are walking through them. They are a reflection of the culture, what’s important to the culture, and the more they assort to that woman who’s buying for her children, the more their sales are gonna grow. And they’re opening more stores, they’re opening bigger stores. And I think that, you know, culturally with the focus on sports and the

focus on wellness, this is an amazing place. And I can see how this is becoming so exciting for shoppers around the country. And there’s a real focus there on team. The CEO said, you know, the higher you go in your corporate ladder, the more you should listen and not talk. I love that. Right. It’s a good one. Right. You want to hear what the consumer is saying and who’s hearing that? It’s not the CEO.

But that brings me to a point, I saw a panel that had Mango, Victoria’s Secrets and Coach on and at Coach they’re going back to basics, customer insight, which has been part of their DNA from, you know, from 19…

1980 when Lou Frankfurt went over but now it’s not in just the silo of customer insights. It’s the CEO and it’s the brand presidents going to customers homes, spending time with them, seeing how coach fits into their life, not how we’re gonna put this on your body, right? And it’s such a different, you know, so it’s a mindset change and that’s what I’m hearing.


And that’s what’s so exciting. That is exciting. have to I have to remember back. So remember Samsung when they were making refrigerators, right? They would actually go into the home of the consumer and sit there and watch them. And they would ask questions like, why do do this or why do do that? So when they designed the new refrigerator, it had to do with how you’re actually using it. So coach is now doing this, right? Which is very exciting, right? That’s where it all starts. Right, right. One thing and the woman from Victoria’s Secret, you know, we’re we’ve

watched Victoria’s Secret do a turnaround. The woman from Victoria’s Secret said, you want to, like, you

to focus on where you can have the momentous occasions, not the marginal occasions. that’s where… interesting. build to your strengths. It’s easier to make good better than it is to make bad good. Right. It’s like make good better and keep doing, and it’s iterative. And that’s what’s so exciting about retail, right? It’s like every day there’s something that you can learn from yesterday. And that’s what…

Shane Greenlee, who was from Mango, that’s what he said was the mantra at Mango, which has opened 50 stores in two years. They’re at like 63, they’re opening more. like, how do you do that? He’s so invested in his associates. And everybody is talking about being in the store more. And for me, with like…

say, you know, 75 to 80 % of sales occurring in the store, you do have to know what the consumer is doing in the store, what matters in the store, and can we capture some of the data that’s happening in the store? Absolutely. Right? So I kind of look to you as kind of like the guru of luxury, because you really cover a lot of luxury. So tell me what’s going on in the space of luxury. Right. So, you know, luxury really got ahead of its skis in the last few years in terms of pricing. mean, COVID

like brought a whole lot of new, new swath of buyers, partly because they had nothing else to do. Luxury created this ba-boom experience. And in the dearth of experiences that we had in 21 and 22, luxury was a place to go and get it. 23 and 24, they started to move away as they got back to traveling. They got back to eating out. They went to the theater. And then you all of a sudden had inflation.

at 23 % inflation for average customer goods. And for luxury, they were increasing prices like that. So if most people play in luxury via handbags, footwear, beauty and…

sunglasses, those kind of accessories and beauty. With prices up, sometimes double digit and more, it’s turned off your true luxury consumer and your aspirational customer who is saying these prices are too high, it’s not worth it. At the same time, the quality deteriorated. So it really became, so for a true luxury customer, it’s like…

So the handbag went from $6,000 $12,000 and it’s not as good as it was when, you So that customer, it’s opened the platform for people to consider new brands. And so if you go into Bergdorfs, if you go into Bloomingdale’s, there’s a whole swath of new brands that are, you know, in terms of apparel pricing.

under $3,000 in terms of handbags under three, the same thing. And this is like, number one, they’re new and fashion is about newness. Luxury can be about heritage, but it’s gotta be fashionable too. And I think it’s like another thing that happened to luxury, Like really this…

dovetailing of so many different events is you’ve got with sales stalling in 23 and 24 like really flatlining in 24 and 25 and when you think that there were price increases units were down profits were down so maybe this year they’ll stabilize and start up again but with

With that happening, you had the executives at these houses of luxury brands move around the designers. And so the designers are doing musical chairs.

And so as a consumer, you’re saying, well, do I follow them or do I stay with the brand? like, why not? It kind of is, there’s a certain amount of cognitive dissonance and well, let me look at some other brands. And there are other brands now.

And you see them online, you see them on the arms of celebrities, you see some influencers talking about them, and then you see them at Bloomingdale’s and at Bergdorf’s and at your luxury department stores. So let me ask you question. Is that aspirational shopper?

still there? What happened to them? It depends what strata they are of aspirational and really there were I remember coming to NRF two years ago and

the president of America’s from LVMH was on stage and he said, and he was contending with questions about, you know, the consumer is hard hit with inflation and all these other categories. Is there still room for luxury to grow? And he said, we like to think that luxury is sticky. And luxury is sticky because it’s the best quality unless it deteriorates, right? And it does have this emotional component.

and it can make you feel sated, right? It’s not like fast food, I want another, I want another, which is what fast fashion does, right? But there were a lot of people that entered the market that really, maybe they’ll buy one bag a year if they buy that. And maybe they won’t, you know, maybe they won’t go back to the bag they bought in 2022 and 2023. Maybe they’ll explore. But certainly…

You know, like, the econo… I just sat in on the economic outlook here at NRF, and we have a kind of K-shaped economy. People in the middle are squeezed, but they still have 401Ks, and the market has done so well that there is this wealth effect that’s hitting middle and upper income. And the spending is happening amongst upper income. And upper income is like anything from like 160,000 on up.

And they’re probably driving a lot of the business, but they’re also spending on travel. Like Americans were not your true luxury shoppers. They bought luxury sporadically until COVID, right? Our luxury was European.

China drove the luxury market. And I didn’t even talk about how China and Russia kind of got out of the market post-COVID. Right. And so there’s been a lot of impacts that have hurt luxury. And this year, while they all are not coming together, I think we’re sitting in a better place. No, that’s good to hear. So the other thing I want to ask you about is, so you have a very interesting perspective on brands versus retailers. So talk to us a little

bit about the difference between the two. Well so you know a lot of brands are direct to consumer which makes them a retailer. Right. But a retailer, what’s the expertise that a retailer has to have? They have to understand real estate, they have to understand hiring people, and they have to understand

They have to curate their store to their local environment, to their local customer. They have to understand merchandising, promotions, right? All that. It’s like a lot. Branding, you go and work for a brand and you have a singular point of view. You understand the dream. And Shelly, you probably know from years in retail that if you went to like a Ralph Lauren…

showroom, you had ambiance that you get at the flagship, right? all the, and I mean any brand would do that for you. Like if it’s a swimsuit brand, they have waves in the back, and they have surfboards, you know, My tie is on the corner. But when you put the brand in a store that sells many brands, it’s totally different. And retailers do that.

And retail, and one thing that brands don’t always do well is their own retail, because they understand how to make a dream that’s kind of static. They manufacture, they make beautiful product, they have great marketing, but now they’re in front of people, and how do they sell this to somebody else? That’s a real skill, right? Not everybody knows how to, it’s one thing to draw the wonderful pieces and engage people online.

And I’ve seen so many brands that are incredible legacy brands. And I don’t mean necessarily luxury, but that when they open stores, they don’t know how to talk to people. Yeah, it’s so interesting. Yeah. So you’ve been doing analysis of our business for a long time. Decades. Yes. So tell me, as you look into 2026, what were some of the key things that you are finding?

consumer perspective going into 2026? So from a consumer perspective, I think the consumer is sitting in the best seat, right? It’s like there’s so many choices, you have so much optionality, and I think that retailers are really creating services for their customers. I think, think about Nordstrom. If you spend a certain amount in Nordstrom, they have an icon lab.

You get to go there as often as you want. And I don’t mean that you have to spend a lot of money. You go there as often as you want. You can have a free drink.

in a room that has windows overlooking Broadway. And there’s TVs there. And you also can have a little snack and a little order. You can meet your friends there. You get a little reprieve and then you go back and shop again. And I really think that, like, oh my god, this is so hospitable. You also get, at that level, like $300 worth of tailoring.

my gosh, how convenient is that? Now at Loomingdale’s, they have incredible loyalty programs and you start getting involved with that as soon as you buy anything there. And at a certain level, you get free gift wrapping. So like I could go shopping with you and you buy something for your mother and I say, come on, I want you to wrap it for your mom, right? And all of a sudden you have this beautiful package. And I don’t think…

You know, I think it’s about value now, but value is not price. Value is a unique equation of quality, experience, service, and that, you know, that…

intangible. That’s right. You can’t put like a specific description on value because it changes by consumer. And by the day. I know and what I’m doing at that precise moment my value changes whether it’s convenience or whether it’s something else. Right, which is like why when people think that they you know you can use agentic AI to make decisions for you it’s like you know I’m more comfortable really personally.

putting something on auto replenishment because I know that I need the toilet paper, the cat food, the cat litter, and I never get it exactly right. I’m always over or under. too. But to put on agentic AI…

Like I once was unable to buy what I wanted on eBay and it’s like I set a price and it probably sold higher. Well, you know what? I would have been willing to pay higher. Should I have given that to AgentiK AI? I seem to have, but if I knew I only had to spend another $10, I would have. Another $100? I don’t want them bidding me up.

So for the consumer though, there’s so many, I think that there’s so many different choices, there’s so many different places where you can buy, there’s marketplaces for you. I think, and for retailers, how do they make money in this environment? And it can’t be through promotion. Like, we write for the Robin record.

Robin Lewis would always say you can’t cut your way to profitability. It’s a race to the bottom. That’s what he used to say to me all the time. It’s a race to the bottom. And it’s that’s… horrible. Right, right. And somebody, the woman at Victoria’s Secrets yesterday said we are speaking to her emotionally. That’s what David Lauren at Ralph Lauren says. We’re not talking to them about promotions.

talks about promotions. You just, like, once you go there, like, it’s hard to come back, right? And you can spend a year and a half trying to get your customer not to expect sales and, you know…

You’re comping the comp, it becomes harder and harder. People lose jobs because they did promotions and then they’re not comping them. But it’s been also so wonderful to see on stage a mango that is kind of new to America and a new brand, relatively here anyway. On stage with…

longer time American brands, and Victoria’s Secrets, both of which have maybe walked away from their consumer, like Coach was guilty of too much promotions at a time, but they’ve turned their business, which is like… It’s amazing. It’s a great story. But it shows you how retail is dynamic and organic and it’s not static. And with people, if you listen to your consumer, can…

Pull it together again, and and here’s the thing with brands. They’re loved they are much loved But but I will say that retail brands like Dick’s Sporting Goods like Bloomingdale’s and Macy’s and more they are loved brands

And they’re retailers, but they’re brands too. Absolutely. So I think to sum it up, value, very important going into 2026, community, creating a community and then that in-store experiential retail that kind of bonds the consumer to the brain. Right. And of course, like online is super important. Make it frictionless. it so easy to connect with what I’ve seen in the online, in the store, even though

We know online is an endless aisle and in the store there is space constraints, but connected. Yep, connected retail. Thank you, Marie. It’s been great having you here. My pleasure, thanks. Awesome, thank you. You’re great.

We’re back on tradition. Oh my God. I am so excited. We’re here at the N.R.F. show, Retail Unwrapped. And I’m thrilled to have, this is like tradition every year for what? years? Yeah, it’s been a few I’ve had you on. So this is Dominic Miserandino. never Miserandino. Miserandino. He is the founder and CEO of RTM. RTM. Retail Tech Media. Next. got it.

Tell me what the heck has been happening over the past year. What are you seeing? I’m dying to hear your insights. It has been a whirlwind of a year. I have gone to 15 conferences this calendar year. 15? Yeah. I’ve done Boston for the Day kind of thing. I’ve flown all over. is conference back to back.

In the industry I’ve seen a lot and our business RTM Nexus has gone crazy. I’ve done also a lot of facilitation with retailers helping the conversations on the C-suite. that’s really given me insight. What’s happened? I’m dying to hear your insights from that. Yeah, on the facilitation side, the job is just getting them out of their silos. And I think what happens, I’ve seen this for 30 years. There’s something new.

Could be anything, social media, new media, Google, our retail media networks in general, and AI. And they all get siloed in that. I know, right? It’s so true. And they almost forget, and you just have to get the conversation going. Why did you start this business? What is the thing the customer wants? And that’s why I always lean towards experiential, because at the end of the day, the customer wants to be happy.

When I saw you today, I was happy. You see things that makes you happy and that’s the purpose of this. Anyone go to Amazon or Tmoo and press a button and then put the joy. That’s the whole purpose. And that’s kind of what I’m doing the facilitation with these retailers. All I’m doing is encouraging the conversation saying, what do you see that makes the customer feel joy essentially? So tell me a little bit about what experiential retail means to you.

and how that translates into our industry over the next year? I think we have evolved into a non-experiential transactional, meaning DoorDash, press the button. Uber Eats, press the button. And the consumer is saying, yeah, that’s awesome. But sometimes I like a pop-up. Sometimes I want to know. I recently bought a tux. I was very fortunate and went to the Fashion Gala Institute’s big event in Rainbow Road.

yeah. So I had to get the tucks and everything. And the experience at the suit supply made the difference. you walk in, here’s the coffee and here’s, let’s help you measure you and here’s your measurements whenever you want to get anything. And in fact, the sales guy said something like, we need to get this and this, just use our measurements. So I thought it was brilliant because the non-sale use our measurements elsewhere, encourage the sale. But that’s been since the dawn of time.

in retail and sales and in business. Experiential is a human connection. And with that being the priority, sales work. Yeah, I have to say I was recently in Lululemon and there’s sometimes there’s like a small disconnect and I love Lululemon. I love the product. It’s great. It’s awesome. But I was in Wall Street having a day with my son. Yep. And so we went to Lululemon. I bought two things. They needed to be hemmed and I can sew. I can do my own sewing. So I was going to sew it.

And she’s like, we have them for free. I’m like, yeah, I know that’s great, but I have to come back here to pick it up. See, that’s a disconnect. Like it’s great that you’re offering that service, but I live, you know, 40 miles north of the city. I’m not gonna travel two hours to come pick up my, I’m gonna have them myself. So it’s disconnects like that, that retail, like I would rather pay $5 for them to ship it to me, hence, than give it to me free and have me come all the way down, would quite frankly cost me about $40.

It’s funny you say disconnect and connect because that’s been I think the secret to success with RTMnext is what we’re doing is the connection. I will send for our events. I will conservatively send a hundred texts. I’ll wake up, wake up at 6 a.m. schedule them for 9 a.m. so no one thinks I’m crazy but it will be personal. I reach out to you. It’s been a while. I miss you. How are you doing? And people want that. I think we’re in this world especially with AI. Dear

Shelly, how are things going at Robin Report? Good. And you can sense it. How often do you have kids who say, my daughter will do it all the time. that’s made by AI. We know it in our gut when it’s not authentic. And the reality is we crave connection as humans. We would not be alive. If there’s any differentiator, and I’ve lectured some students about this at Aon.

AI in general, the differentiator is the authenticity and the connection. It’s very good at non-authentic. It’s really good at press the button, door dash, have a nice day. So like when I’m putting on these events, the reason I think they’re working or when we do the webinar, the people attending, I’m reaching out. Shelly, this will be of interest to you because of this, because I remember the time we sat and talked and we had this moment.

You have to seek those emotional connections of humanity. So how can retailers on scale think about on scale, how can they humanize? Yeah, I think first of all, scale is the key. That’s the cause. And we, from a business perspective, with every reason, look at it from the perspective of scale with the non-humanness. To me, the trick is, when I was CMO of AdoramaPix, CMO of AdoramaPix, I literally said,

give me a list of our top 200 customers. Now I can’t reach everybody, but I called on the way from Long Island to Brooklyn customers. They thought I was nuts. Every day, every day, I got through that 200 and I wanted a call. And part of it was using their data to implement. What do you want? we want, I’d love to see a tour of the factory. We’ll make a tour. What do you want? I want a better coupon system. We’ll figure that out. I want to feel like when I call the office,

I’m getting an answer. We’ll change that system. Now, I couldn’t reach all. There was just no way to reach the tens of thousands of people. I could certainly reach a few hundred and use that data to start to infer. And then I think what happens, at one point we were also doing weekly Facebook lives talking to the customers. You can infer that. You could say, hey, you know, I reached out to everyone and this really means a lot to me.

I think that’s the trick. a lululemon or something. Maybe you’re talking to the customers and they’re saying, you know, I had to get the measurements and it really drove me nuts. And the solution to that is we’re going to train the whole team and we’re going to make an announcement. You need it. We’re going to guarantee we’ll get this measurement done in this time. And you’re addressing that human need, which I guarantee your human pain was felt by others. Oh, I’m sure. Yeah. So you identify the individual needs.

and magnify it on scale from the business where applicable. Now the challenge becomes when it’s difficult, but you can work towards that goal as much as you can. Say, what is the generalized human need that I’ve learned from talking to people? It’s sitting on a lobby. You know, the other thing I did, I’m sorry to give two answers to it, I feel passionate. You can give three Oh, well, try. I sat in the lobby at Aderon Pics. I took my laptop and I sat in the lobby where people were walking in.

worked like a normal day and I’d listen, watching. I studied Yiddish. And I did it to overhear the Orthodox community. I wanted to understand what are they saying. Then you start to hear the same words. You know, what is, hear, wait, that woman said this, this woman said this, this woman said this. What does that mean, that word? I don’t know it, but can you help me out here? And too often we’re in the ivory tower, 50,000 foot view in the air, but it…

That logic doesn’t make sense to me at times. You still have to take your product, throw it against the wall, walk in the store, buy your product. That’s a necessity. It’s a complete necessity to it all. So tell me, what is RTM RTM Nexus. And what are you doing? Yeah, retail, tech, media, Nexus. We’re connecting retail, tech, and media in general. I always felt the equation. I’ve been on the media side of the world at first, getting pitched by the retailers.

Can you cover my this or this or this? And then I noticed you almost, I feel like there was a line, the B to C and the B to B. There’s definitely a lineation for sure. And I noticed I was well aware. So the retailers were calling me for traffic, for how do I sell the product? How do I get more sales? And I’d go in and flip over e-commerce companies left, right and center saying, this is how you scale it up.

The B2B side of that delineation, I know it was not talking almost to the consumer. From the media side, I started seeing the voice of the consumer. So retail tech media, we’re connecting the retailers to the media. I’ve gotten retailers on TV and I’ve gotten the board jobs and I’ve helped retailers get their career further. On the tech side, we have tech companies calling us saying, how do I connect to these retailers? So with Nexus being the connection amongst them all. that, that’s awesome.

It’s been going really great. I’m really happy with the number of events and the number of webinars and our newsletters at a record level, our podcasts is on a record level. So it’s been good. That’s awesome. Any closing thoughts from you today? I think I’m thrilled being here at NREF with you because it’s reflective of what this industry needs. It’s people. It needs that moment that I texted you saying, come around, let’s talk. And you texted me.

Let’s get together. Let’s do it. And that energy. Imagine if more people in retail said, hey, you wanted that product this morning. I found it on the shelves and I’d love you to come in and I’m so sorry you wanted this or that. Oh, I miss you. It’s so good to see you. We need that connection. Definitely. I also see a lot more collaboration in our industry, which is great. Let’s collaborate. Awesome. Well, thanks for being here. Thank you so much. Awesome. Thank you, Dominic. Awesome.

Hi, Shelly Cohen here, Retail Unwrapped. I’m so excited. We’re here at the NRF live in person. have Gary Sankrey with me from Esri. Yep. And he manages the industry solutions. For the retail industry. For retail. So we’re excited to have you here. So let’s start by tell us a little bit about the company first. OK. And then I’ll ⁓ ask you for some insights.

We do mapping, geospatial analytics. We help retailers understand why things happen where they do and we help them.

it’s a good thing, it happens more often, and if it’s a bad thing, we try to mitigate the bad stuff. Excellent. So when you talk about this location services, is it inside stores, is it outside stores, is it across the board? All of the above. So everything from global all the way down to the neighborhood down to inside the store. we’re all about maps. The scale of the maps ⁓ is really irrelevant. It’s all about taking data and applying it into the map.

That’s great. So tell me what have you been seeing over the past year? ⁓ So really it’s all about localization, right? So if I take my role at Esri out of the picture, retailers have really come to understand that localization, personalization is critical, right? ⁓ I write that up because I know like, especially in the United States.

I come from Target, so I was at Target for like 30 years. in that role, I mean, we were opening 200 stores a year, and when you do that, you can cover up a lot of seed. We don’t do that anymore. Retailers in general aren’t doing that. But they still have the same growth expectations from their shareholders and from their management that they had before. So to be able to do that, you’ve got to do more with the locations that you have. And the way that you’re doing that is what…

Esri and with ArcGIS you’re able to bring in geographic data and look for discrete correlations to help you understand again why is this store performing this way? Why is that store performing that way? Why is that particular category? Who are my customers here? What do I think they’re going to like based on the demographics, based on the psychographics, all that kind of stuff. That’s amazing. So you’re looking at lots of data, you’re analyzing the data and then you allow

retailers to make real time decisions based on that? Exactly. So they can bring, so the retailers can bring the data in and they can.

reflected in a map and looking at different layers. So I came over from Target, I actually didn’t know what Esri was, I didn’t know what GIS was, but I retake really well. And what I learned to kind of settle in on, and what I’ve realized is secret sauce for what we do, is this ability to bring in all of this kind of disparity in it. So if you think about a store, all right, so I’m going back to, know, grocery chain ABC.

store that’s in a particular market. I’ve got a bunch of data that tells me about the lifestyle of the people around that store. I also have data that tells me where the people who shop in that area come from, so I can also apply that kind of information. I might have data about product performance. I might have data about my competitors, all different kinds of things. It’s all in a geographic layer, and I don’t have to normalize it in GIS. I can use location as that unstructured join and use that label.

in that data. That’s amazing. And so do you create like a dashboard of some sort that retailers can use? So we create dashboards. We also just create geospatial announce, so create a hotspot. I can throw that hotspot into a dashboard. I can also create a story map that tells a whole story to help them understand, like how they… One of the variables is the temporal changes that happen in a story.

So what are you most excited about for 2026? Well, all right. So I see this. There’s a little bit of a gentic AI down there. Just a wee bit. The entire two floors of the Javits. But I think what I’m what when I think about geo AI, because we’re right in the middle of that.

You know, I’m an old guy, so I’m slow adopter, but I really think what it’s doing, it’s not, I’m going to be an outlier here and say it’s not going to, there’s not innovate, what drives retail success is innovation and design, in my opinion. But what the AI is helping us do is really expand the scope of the things that we can look at. So in our case, I can bring even more data sets and find correlations that it might have taken, I may have never stumbled across. And I think, you know, when the AI,

GEOAI is really cooking with gas, which we’re there, is it’s going to be able to say, I ask it a question like, ⁓ want to know where’s the store I can sell really high-end lifestyle products, and I think it’s going to be a store that’s in a high-income neighborhood.

When it’s able to come back and say, know, yes or no, but here’s two other things you didn’t even think about, you might want to consider as well. That’s what I think is going to be revolution. That’s very helpful.

so what else would you like to add anything else that you would like to add in terms of what great work that you’re doing and how you can help retailers be better retailers? ⁓ Well I think the other thing that I’m really excited about is we’re really getting ⁓

into the world of loss prevention asset protection. So we talk a lot about margin growth and sustainable growth and now taking a look at, if you think about all the law enforcement agencies out there are all using GIS, they’re using it for dispatch and that sort of thing. I can now use that same discipline at a retailer. if I’m a retailer that has an asset protection loss prevention team, I can use our tool as a sensor platform so I can be able to see where my cameras are, I can be able to see where I’m getting hit and look for patterns.

types of activities to do the same sorts of analysis to say either to help with prevention. Right. Like I mean today I walk when I walk back to my hotel and I dive into a Duane Reed and it’s like I’m not buying anything here because I got to find something to unlock every one of these little things. do I need that in every single store? Well yeah you do. ⁓

you don’t need it by category and the GIS can help you figure out how you can still preserve a comfortable experience but at the same time try to manage some of those negative things that are happening in your store. Yeah that’s very frustrating especially when you’re trying to shop and you go to stores and you can’t get to the product the customers just walk out or they don’t just get it online absolutely and have it delivered to their door so they don’t have to go through that frustration. That’s right and then you miss out on all of the up sales.

The market basket goes away, which is a bad thing. That’s right. Oh my gosh, so it’s been great. Anything else you want to add? No, I’m just delighted. This is, know, this is I’ve been here. Trying to keep lost town because I came here as a target guy and now I’ve been coming for 10 years. The Esri guy. This show is always kind of a highlight of it. They could move it two more weeks into January if you want to, but it’s really it’s it’s just always I’m always coming.

find something to get excited about to work on for the year. I think I’ve been coming for like 30 years. Yeah, I think I’m at 20. Do you remember back in the day it used to be shelving units and POSs? cash boxes. Yeah all operational stuff and maybe a solution provider too in the back corner. Absolutely. Yeah. What’d you do at Target? I was in the merchandisers organization so I did I went through the buying ranks. That’s awesome. Yeah and I did the I went in a merchandise.

I ran a plan a grant team and store planning. I’ve won that. That’s great for what you’re doing now. Yeah, I understand the back of house piece of it. It’s been fun and you know. My daughter just got her first job out of college at Ann Taylor and I told her congratulations. You’re now the fourth generation. Sankrey in the retail bits. What school did she graduate from? University of Delaware.

Congratulations. Like many most retailers not in retail, but not in business. She was an art conservation major. Here she is. She’s excited. Well, thank you so much for being here. nice to meet you. meeting

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NRF Trade Talks: Four Unique Perspectives https://therobinreport.com/nrf-trade-talks-four-unique-perspectives/ Fri, 16 Jan 2026 05:01:00 +0000 https://therobinreport.com/?p=121777 89Join Shelley and Sandy DeFelice, Senior Vice President of Revenue and Strategic Accounts at Digital Wave Technologies, as they reveal how clinging to traditional product descriptions and outdated data structures are becoming untenable. ]]> 89

Shelley caught up with four innovators at NRF 2026 to get their takes on the retail industry and an outlook for this year. Their conversations ranged from managing returns and geo-location insights to advanced tools for managing inventory.  Listen and learn from the experts.

Tim Robinson, Vice President of Commerce, Blue Yonder, has interesting insights on a significant challenge for retailers, especially, post-holiday: returns.  There’s a temptation to tolerate returns to drive up sales numbers, but there are consequences to managing the unwanted merchandise. Data and analytics are key tools to anticipating returns and transforming them into assets. Tim says, “There’s a lot of opportunity to do things better. I’d say there’s been a real shift in the last couple of years from returns being a customer service challenge to a customer experience. And now returns now are being seen as valuable inventory you can sell at full price; not wasted items that you can’t resell and dispose of.”

Ethan Chernofsky, Chief Marketing Officer at Placer.ai provides critical analytics to retailers on the implications of traffic patterns in physical stores.  He says, “There are a few things that have really caught our attention as being foundational into what retail is going to need to do to drive success in the coming years. It starts with the consumer. If we think immediately post-pandemic, we saw this mission driven shopping trend where people were spending lots of time in retail locations. The thought is that if you win the visit, you win the basket. Now we’ve seen that visit durations are down but the number of visits for every category per customer is going up. People are going to more locations and spending less time there. So, value, product, experience, and brand affinity have a lot more significance than we sometimes give them credit for. Value is really important; it doesn’t mean cheap or low price. Value means the worthiness in the eyes of the consumer.”

Jay Hakami, CEO and Founder of Skypad has innovated a novel tech platform that is predictive and helps retailers manage inventories. He says, “Initially, we started as a data collection company, collecting data from the retailer, aligning it with the brand style information, and then providing insights. Today, with Agentic AI, we’re getting into the predictive side going into dynamic planning and allocation. We are aligning data with the information we get from the brand and putting it together so the brand can actually make a decision what’s selling, what’s not selling by geographies, but by product attributes and time dimension. With agentic AI, we’re essentially setting up buyers and planners for absolute success.”

George Shaw, Senior Vice President of Standard AI is a veteran of geo-location analytics. His innovation is to amplify computer vision insights by leveraging existing cameras and monitors chronicling and making sense of a customer’s entire shopping journey. George is also an expert on measuring consumer behavior, as he says, “We see a lot more engagement. People are coming into stores and wanting to interact more with staff which speaks a lot to why people shop in physical stores in the first place. We want to see people and touch the products. We see retailers caring more about that and we see it in the metrics that we collect.” He adds, “We have to simplify the whole process of deploying this technology to make it faster and make the data more useful. Retailers don’t want a bunch of dots moving around maps. They want the metrics that they actually care about. We give them a very simple, clean, clear dashboard that they can use operationally at scale.”

Special Guests

Tim Robinson, Senior Vice President of Commerce, Blue Yonder
Ethan Chernofsky, Chief Marketing Officer, Placer.ai
Jay Hakami, CEO and Founder, Skypad
George Shaw, Senior Vice President, Standard AI

Hi, Shelley Kohan here, Retail Unwrapped. I’m very excited. have Tim Robinson here with me, Senior Vice President of Commerce of Blue Yonder. Thank you. Yeah, very delighted to be here. I’m so excited because you’re here in person. Here in person. How rare is this? I know. I usually have all my podcasts that are virtual. So I’m so thrilled to you here I’m pleased to be in New York. It’s great. And the weather’s not bad. Weather’s not bad. Yeah, it’s a bit British. It is. very familiar. It’s a bit gray and damp, but no, very good. Yeah, you’re lucky. Last year was like a mess. Yeah.

So what I’d love to talk to you about today is so returns. Yeah, you got to talk about returns in January, right? Because that’s that’s a big problem for a lot of this is the sweet spot as they say So tell me a little bit about what you’re seeing out there and you know, what what’s different today? Then say a year ago holiday. And what do you what do you look for in the future? Yeah, so I mean, it’s a great question because I think returns, you know as a subject in retail supply chain is very hot

You know, so there’s a lot going on. There’s a lot of investment. There’s a lot of talk. And I think that’s because ultimately there is a lot of opportunity. There’s a lot of opportunity to do things better. I’d say the thing that’s changed the most for me is ⁓ there’s been a real shift in the last couple of years from ⁓ returns being a kind of customer service challenge, a customer experience thing. You know, if you’ve got to create great returns experiences so consumers continue to shop in your stores.

And whilst that remains very important, returns now are being seen as inventory, the thing that they are. These aren’t wasted items that you can’t resell. This is valuable inventory. definitely. Exactly, yeah. And so therefore, there’s been a real shift from how can I dispose of these returns as low cost as possible to how can I harness these returns, understand what I’ve got, get them back into stock, get them back out there for full price.

And so if you think about what that means from the supply chain and what that means from a, well, almost like philosophy, philosophical perspective, there’s, there’s a lot more to do ⁓ in order to, in order to resell a returning item at full price, but the industry has all the data. We have all the information. We have all the capabilities about just putting it in the right place. So this year we’ve seen much more widespread ⁓ use of kind of data, data science, analytics and AI.

as tools to manage your returns challenge. That’s amazing. Yeah. So I’m anxious to hear how that’s happening because I know that there’s a lot of consumer behaviors that don’t help the whole return scenario for retailers. Yeah. You know, bracketing, the ordering more sizes, the colors problem, size problems. There’s all kinds of reasons for returns. how can we work better as an industry?

to get those returns more manageable and are you now using AI? Yeah, definitely. So I would say as a first principle, the vast majority of returns exist for very good reason. Because in order for consumers to shop online and to have the best experience, you do want to try different sizes on, you want to try different colors, different fits and that sort of stuff. And so they do exist for a very good reason. I think there is a danger in the industry that we do, we end up talking too much about bracketing.

because it’s a tiny, tiny proportion. really is. I’m not saying you don’t have to address it, but it’s a tiny proportion. The vast majority of returns exist for very good reason because they drive up sales. They drive consumers to your online journals. when I think about what’s the consumer’s role in all of this, I think it’s about if we can give consumers better visibility of what’s going to happen to your returns.

and give them choices that allow them to behave in a way that reduces the impact of that return, then I am absolutely sure that we will see exponential change and exponential benefit. If you think about, you know, I’m old enough to come from a world where back in Europe, you didn’t have to wear a seatbelt. You know, it was your choice, you in the car. And of course, over time, that changed, legislation changed. But ultimately, it was societal.

shift. was, you know, you’re behaving poorly, you know, you’re being irresponsible if you don’t wear a seatbelt. And that shift happens. And how did it happen? Well, in Europe, it was through very overt campaigns and the spreading of information about what happens when you hit a car and you don’t have a seatbelt on. You know, it became very, very, very, it became sort of a big topic, much talked about. If you think about the return space.

you know, we might complain about, these consumers, you they buy four and return three. Don’t they know what’s going to happen to their returns? Well, no, they don’t. They rely on us to make sensible decisions and do sensible things to deal with their second life. So I do think like changing, giving more visibility to consumers about what might happen to this item. If you want to return an item, if you’re prepared to drop it at this location that allows us to put it in this, you know, it goes into a location where it’s going to be resold and maybe that’s free.

But if you don’t want to do that, that’s inconvenient. You want to drop a return this way, that’s actually going to cost us and our business money and you’re going to have to pay for it. But give visibility and transparency because it’s all there. The data’s all there. I love that. Well, first, I love the fact that your whole mindset is so different on returns. Like you actually feel like the customer should be able to try multiple things on. It’s part of the sales. That’s what drives the sales. Yeah, definitely. And I do think our industry is kind of like trying to figure out the all the

challenges with returns and trying to change consumer behavior. That’s not just that doesn’t work, right? No, no, not at all. I think we can influence consumers to modify their behavior, but the core behavior that creates this challenge is important. And it has been a huge driver of the growth of e-commerce over the last 20 years. And so, you know, if you weren’t able to return items.

free cheaply or for free or readily, then this industry would not have grown at the rate it’s grown and it would all look very different. This hall here at this trade show, the stands would look very different if e-commerce didn’t exist. And so we’re back to a day where it was all about point of sales and tills. So ⁓ we’ve got this great industry now built up on the back of changing consumer attitudes and demands and behavior. I think what we’ve got to do is we’ve got to rely on consumers to give us accurate information

the data we need in order to be able to do the right things with returns. It rely on them to behave differently when we provide the information. So if we provide information about this returns route is a more expensive, more impactful returns route. Let’s tell the consumers that that’s the case. If that’s what they need to do, then that’s fine because need is needs that exist. But let’s just give the information and then let’s do what we supply chain professionals should do, which is

use data to make sensible decisions to reduce our impact and increase our profits. It’s of no different in that regard. is. Let me ask you question. Are you seeing in terms of the consumers? I’ve read and seen a lot where consumers are making choices about where to shop based on return policies. Are you seeing that? Very much so. that’s a that’s a real trend. That’s a real trend. So we did a we did a survey recently of consumers across the US.

Australia, Asia Pac and Europe. And that was a resounding finding, you know, that nowadays one of the big drivers of not just where I’m going to shop once, but maybe loyalty, you where I’m going to repeat shop is down to the returns policies, how strict they are, you how many choices I’m given for returns drop off. Does it cost me? Doesn’t it cost me? All of those things are big factors in modern consumers deciding who they’re prepared to spend their money with.

⁓ And you know, I get it. I can see why. Because I think, ⁓ you know, the point we made earlier on, it is very much part of the experience now. It’s part of shopping online is being able to behave in this way. But also, I think it’s a trust thing. Definitely. Because it gives the consumer the sense that this retailer trusts me. They trust me that I’m not bracketing or they trust me that I’m you know, I’m not I’m not sort of just behaving badly. They trust me that this is what I need and therefore they’re going to react to it.

Yeah, it kind of does drive me a little crazy when retailers create policy around the exception. Yeah. Oh, it’s literally it’s it kills me. Yeah. Like designing a policy or a process or a system to deal with the 1 % or the minus 1 % of, you know, less than 1 % of consumers that might be trying to trying to break the system or fiddle the system or whatever it happens to be. It makes zero sense, really. Yeah. You know, because a lot of cost.

⁓ gets generated by creating this exceptional ⁓ process and system. And ultimately all it does is it switches off the 99 % of loyal, you know, well behaving customers. That’s right. And do you, does Blue Yonder do any work in terms of like fraudulent returns and minimize that? Yeah. So the great thing about the amount of data that we collect. So, you know, we have

hundreds, thousands of retailers that rely on our ⁓ various elements of our returns platform to deliver these experiences to consumers, the ones that we’ve just described. So we gather a huge amount of information and we see that. So we can track that information across like a single email address or a cohort of consumers in a particular geography maybe, or consumers buying particular SKUs and particular items. And you can see anomalies, you can see exceptions.

And actually you think when people are talking about return fraud, probably three or four years ago, the answer seemed to be cameras in shops, looking at the behavior of a single consumer, you know, and they’re all having to open every single return to see whether it is the thing, you know, I thought it was shoes, but it’s a brick, you know, The in practice, you don’t, that’s madness doing that. That is expensive. And it’s like, you know, as you described earlier, it’s a process to deal with this mind with the sub 1 %

of cases, the way you track it is through anomalies in the data. Because as consumers, we pretty much behave the same repeatedly, time and time and time and time again, often with multiple different retailers. So here in the US, for example, we power a very large returns drop off network for a major carrier. And we do the same in Australia, same in Japan, same in Europe for different partners. We can see changes in behavior patterns that highlight where these kind of

all what I call organized and curated fraudulent activity is taking place. You know, the odd one here or there, you know, may get missed, but in the round, fraud is detected through anomalies. And it’s the data that tells you that. So I have another question for you, and I hope I’m not putting you on your spot. But if you could tell me what is your ideal return scenario from a consumer perspective? Yeah, so.

Yeah, I think about this a lot. makes me, not the most popular guy at parties because this is like one of my favorite subjects, but I think about this a lot. What’s the panacea of returns management? And I think it actually comes down to both the customer experience, but also the what next, the so what. So I feel like for most consumers, we know that

We’ve got a very good idea which items are likely to be returned. So let’s say Tim’s bought three jackets, three Navy jackets. We know he’s not going to keep all three of those jackets. We just know. And so to be able to communicate with that consumer soon after they’ve received the delivery, to get real data about which of the three, why that one, why these two or whatever, and start to engage with the consumer at that point, I think would be the perfect start to the journey.

But ultimately for me, the sort of the eureka moment is the day when Tim goes online, therefore like responds to my prompt, tells me that he’s going to send this particular jacket back. The jacket’s fine. It’s just the wrong, it’s the wrong fit. I’m going to keep the, I’m going to keep the longer fit. I can then allocate that skew to an outbound order. So when Tim rewraps that item up and goes to a drop off point and he drops it off in that drop off point.

the label that’s being printed is going to Mark. Oh, that’s amazing. So it’s never actually going back to a distribution center and being touched again because we trust him. We know that he tried it on, rewrapped it, put it back in the package, print the label at a drop off point. Mark lives in the next zip code. Instead of going all the way back to some state where it gets handled in a warehouse, waited and then refulfilled, just go straight in that way and you end up with this completely symbiotic kind of environment where nothing sits still until such time as it’s until such time as

customer wants it. I love that scenario. So that’s what we’re working towards. We’re working towards exactly that. And if you think if you’re running returns management for a retailer and you’re running order management, so we’re matching orders to skews and to fulfillment. And we and we’re feeding transport management systems, we can print the right labels, we’re powering these drop off networks. That’s the ideal scenario, you know, the kind of you keep that keep that skew alive until the customer is ready delighted for you find that

customer that wants it. love that. I love the fact that you spend your off time thinking about this too. Yeah, it’s sad, it is me. What else can you tell us about BlueYonder, anything else you want to share with us? Yeah, think, you know, some of what we’ve talked about for returns, I would say is really good, really illustrates what BlueYonder is all about. that is, we’re a supply chain technology business, supply chain software business.

But we’re one of, and there are many, you only have to look at show like this and there are thousands of us. In practice though, there are very few that operate across the entire life of a skew of an item. So, you know, we, as a business, we run planning tools, the commerce tools that ⁓ I lead and I own around. once you have the planning tools, forecast, make a judgment.

procure stock and items. The commerce tools is then the kind of the brain that shapes that interacts with the consumer, shows what options are available, creates demand. And then you’ve got the execution side of our business, which is then around how you fulfill that warehouse picking, transport management, deliver on those promises that you’ve made the consumer at this point. So we manage that all end to end, but we also go right back down through the manufacturing supply chain. So in many cases, I like

I’ll walk into a supermarket in the United Kingdom and it’s fascinating. It also makes you very proud to work for the business because I can look at a shelf and I can see consumer goods and I know that our technology and our capability has been involved in the planning, manufacturing, delivery, execution of all of those things that are on that shelf. And I also know that at some point later tonight, there’s a very good chance that one of the consumers are going to go online.

They’re going to pick a basket digitally. And one of these supermarket colleagues is going to come and pick that item again, put it in their basket, create a basket, put it in a road vehicle, take it out to their house, scan it in the customer. And we’re in all of that. We’re everywhere, you know? And so, and that’s like the, you know, we’re trying to kind of create what use technology to create a world where, where any, any customer kind of preference that you could imagine can be, can be fulfilled.

But you can do it in a sustainable manner. And my boss talks about sustainable abundance. You we’ve all got used to abundance now, but have we now got a sustainable abundance? The reality is no. So we’ve got to move to a world where you have sustainable abundance. if you’re like today, in the most part, if you’re a fashion retailer and you want to buy, you want to sell a hundred t-shirts, you probably buy 140. Right. Because you know, there’s going to be some waste in the system, you know.

Whereas I think better use of technology at every point of the supply chain allows you to buy 100, sell 100. Exactly. So that’s the, of course, that’s the big objective. That’s the trick. That’s amazing. Well, thank you so much. It was great thank you. It’s been great. Yeah, no, thank you very much. I look forward to it. know. Thank you. I think it’s been very exciting. Yeah, it’s good. a lot of activity, a lot of different…

Not just retailers are here, but a lot of vendors are here. distributors as well. Yeah, it’s great. It’s like the whole collaboration of the industry coming together. I’ve done this for a long time, actually, about 15 years now. And I was saying to somebody earlier on that the pace of change over the last five years, it’s eye watering compared to the previous 10. As in the previous 10, you could walk around the show and it genuinely would be shelving and.

I remember that. remember that. And it’s very different now. It’s amazing how it’s very little hardware here these days. I think the other thing, so talking about your how blue yonder is really across every kind of touch point. I think now in our retail industry, we’ve never been more collaborative. Yeah, exactly. Across not just the functions, but across the industry. And I think that makes us better retailers. It does. It does. And I think, you know, there’s obviously a lot of

There has been skepticism about things like AI across all industries for a long period of time. But I feel like that skepticism really doesn’t exist at scale in retail anymore, particularly not in supply chain, because everybody sees how it works and how it’s evolving. But it forces collaboration, really, because AI requires multiple data sources. requires, and actually can start to influence and intervene.

in not just your bit of the business, but in your colleagues bit of the business. And therefore your colleague suppliers and your colleague supply chain and, and, and, and, so it forces that kind of rethink about how the industry operates. So it’s a bit of a force for good, even though there are worries about AI and its impact on humanity. think in our industry, it’s a great force for good. Yep. Well, thank you. And thank you for all the you do for the industry. No, great. Thanks very much.

I’m so excited we’re here at the NRF retail on wrap and we have with us Ethan Chernowski. Chernowski. always forget. It’s close. It’s great. We nailed it. Nope. We’re going to say Chernowski. Did I do it right? Chernowski. What is it? It’s Chernowski. Yeah. All right. Anyway, you are CMO of Placer AI and you guys have a lot of rich data and analytics and I’m excited today because usually you and I speak or virtual and today we’re in

Nice, it’s amazing. love it. So anyway, so I’m dying to hear what are you seeing? You get lots of information, get lots of data. Maybe do a quick what Placer AI is and then tell us what you’re seeing. Yeah, absolutely. So Placer is a location analytics company. That means very, very simply, people vote with their feet. We show you how they vote across the United States every single day.

Excellent. And you do all kinds of, I think personally I’m not biased, but I think you put out some of the best reporting of the industry. I’m always going to your website and looking up your reports and all your analytics because you kind of look at the business not like an analytics company, but you kind of look at the business like a retail. I think what interests us is this idea that you go from

metrics and data to opinions. Because I think what ultimately the way the data is used by our customers is how do they inform better decisions for their actual businesses. So for us, it’s first of all, it’s just super interesting and such an exciting space to get to monitor and look at. But so much of what we’re trying to show is you might completely disagree with the conclusions that they have and that’s absolutely legitimate. But to go from a metric, a number, a data trend to an informed opinion about something, I that process is so.

I think it’s great and we’ve shortened the time considerably from like five years ago. Like decision making is like very quick in no time now. I feel like some of it’s almost like too quick. Like it’s funny every time you go to one of these conferences you hear about like what are the big themes that are being discussed and you’re like well remember two years ago when you told us it was gonna be this it doesn’t change that dramatically that quickly and so I feel like sometimes you want

really, really rapid decision making and there are certainly places for that but in a lot of cases it’s almost like take a deep breath let’s decide is this thing that was something we think is going to be here forever is this thing we think is going to go away in the next few months is this something that’s going to be you know dictating the way retail operates for the next decade and I there’s so much variability there. Yeah absolutely so tell me what are you seeing in the data what have you seen transpire over the past year and what can we look forward to?

So I think there’s a few things that have really caught our attention as being foundational into what retail is going to need to do in order to drive success in the coming years. I’ll give you one that starts with the consumer. If we think immediately post pandemic, we saw this mission driven shopping trend where people are going to retail locations. They’re spending lots of time in those locations. If you win the visit, you win the basket. It’s not just about the number of transactions, it’s about the number of items that are in that basket.

What we’ve seen over the last few years is that really dissipated. So visit durations are down. The number of visits for every category per customer is going up. So people are going to more locations. They’re spending less time there. And I think this is so critical because, again, let’s put on that time machine hat and go back to 2020. We were told convenience is king.

And I think what we’ve learned in the last few years is that’s absolutely not the case. Interesting. It doesn’t mean convenience isn’t important. Right. But it’s not king. Right? There are things that are much more important. So value, product, experience, brand affinity. These things have a lot more significance than we sometimes give them credit for. Right. And I just want to mention something about value. Because value is really important. Value doesn’t mean cheap. Or…

Low price. Value means the worthiness in the eyes of the consumer, right? I agree with you completely, and I think it’s one of the things that you hear the terminology tossed around. But it’s almost like…

Because it’s so fluid, it’s difficult to pinpoint. So what is affordable enough? What is valuable enough? And I think that’s why elements like caliber of product, elements like experience and brand, they matter more because value is somewhat of a moving target. so…

think about retailers that really nail the experience, people are willing to spend a little bit more. When people, the retailers that don’t do that, value becomes more of an issue, but it’s not because the price was off, it’s because they don’t perceive the overall experience as being worthy of the price that you’re charging. Right. So tell me about in-store experience and what any information you have regarding visits or duration. You mentioned the duration went down.

What else can you tell us? What’s interesting is when you look at data like that, see shorter visits, you see more visits, and so you can clearly see that the battle is going to, again, how do I get the visit and I win, to I’m gonna get the visit, how do I maximize my share of the list of things that need to be bought or purchased? When you take that as true…

implications from an innovation perspective are massive. So where are we going to invest our time and energy? Is it going to be shrinking the journey in store? Like I don’t think that’s the thing that really moves the needle, but I go to elements like retail media, especially in the physical environment, and though it’s kind of not as hot and exciting as it was a year or two ago, think it’s unbelievably important because that need to maximize the kind of value.

The dollars per visit, so to speak, increases. So what helps improve the customer journey? What helps drive more purchases? What helps drive, I don’t know, just monetizing the visit itself? These things are unbelievably important, and I think those are going to be prioritized as we continue to see things fall out in the next couple of years.

That’s so interesting. So who do you think is really killing it? When you look at the data and you look at this consistency of visits over time, who’s really killing it? There’s the ones that never surprise. And it’s almost necessary to call them out because it’s easy to overlook because they’re so consistently good. So Walmart, such a great example of just effective execution, consistent growth. Even the way they do e-commerce, the way they leverage.

their in-store capabilities to drive that e-commerce growth. Costco is such a great example. I think, Costco is an amazing example because I think we gloss over some of the crazy things that they do. you can go to Costco and you know, you have an expectation of what’s going to end up in that giant, that giant cart that you’re reeling around.

But I think one of the things that’s amazing about Costco is you’re also renting cars. You’re booking travel. That doesn’t make any sense. It really doesn’t, and yet they do it so effectively because we love them, we trust them, we appreciate their relationship. It’s something that’s really special. when you call it out, I know someone who gets their hearing aids at Costco. Again, in what planet is that a normal journey to go on? But yet it works because they’re so strong, they’re so trusted. And then you think about smaller players that certainly get lots of hype.

HEB, their ability to be authentic and really locally focused. But then there’s players that I think are well positioned because of things that they’re doing, but also changes in the market. So things like Michaels. Michaels was a really strong performing retailer. And as the year went on, we saw their visit growth pick up pace. And that’s because two of their biggest competitors fell off. Joann’s and… And Joann’s and Party City. And so you see this incredible combination of a really strong retailer and a great opportunity. And I think those are the ones where you’re like, wow, this

is going to be exciting. Love that. So what can you tell us on consumer behavior? What are you seeing differently? What do you think is going to happen in 2026? I think it’s going to be, I mean, there’s nothing more boring than saying it’s going be more of the same, but I do think it’s going to be more of the same, which is this. A shopper that is basing their purchase on the things that they love, a shopper that’s willing to visit more places, I mean I was on a panel earlier today and the terminology that was used that was both funny but also incredibly like excellent, it’s a promiscuous shopper. Like they’re not just for you. Like they’re going to go to other places and you need to know that. And so how do you lean in to those things that you do exceptionally well?

What makes, it’s not like a lost leader mentality of how do I convince you to come and then you’ll hopefully buy other things. It’s how do I create something great so that you’ll come? And I think that is a mindset shift, especially when we know how prevalent value is, where it’s not a race to the bottom of who can make things the cheapest. It’s who can create this incredible experience that’s so affordable. I love that. Who said that comment, do you remember? I don’t wanna, I’m gonna butcher his last name, but a brilliant guy from Giants.

Oh nice, yeah. Okay, so yeah, I agree with that. And I think it’s very difficult because as you kind of hinted to, the consumers, the behavior changes based on the scenario. Like today, for me, I gotta go to my son’s baseball game. It’s all on convenience. Tomorrow, I’m shopping with friends. It’s all about social interaction. Also, I think one of the big things we forgot is that, or we didn’t want to admit, I don’t know if we ever forgot it, we like shopping.

even like going to the grocery store because there is something about walking through the aisles and like what am I gonna choose what’s gonna inspire the dinner that I don’t know what I’m making yet in two nights or which I don’t know for me that like it’s because it’s silly but you know walking through the cereal aisle with my kids and they’re like well which version of Cap’n Crunch are we gonna choose like there’s something exciting about that journey and I think the more we embrace the fact that this isn’t just something we have to do it’s something we are choosing to do the more we can elevate that experience. Yeah, now I agree with that.

I think the whole physical stores and the experiential retail are really gonna win out. So Placer.AI has been around for a long time. Seven years since we launched. That’s great. So what are you planning any kind of new features coming out over the next few years that you can tell us about? Yeah, so I mean there’s we have a heavy focus on trying to make the data even more accessible even easier to leverage so lots of things where like one-click reports where you can go in

filter out some key details that you’re looking for and then have that in your inbox within a handful of minutes. That’s what we’re really focused on. How do we speed up the process from that eureka moment, this idea that you want to explore to getting a real insight that’s going to help you make better decisions. There’s a lot of obviously emphasis on AI and how do we enable these AI components to better access the data, allow you to answer questions more directly.

to be a little bit more specific and tailored to what you’re looking for, these are the areas that focus for us. So clearly you’re using agentic AI, right? I would imagine, yeah. You’ve probably been using it for years. mean, we’ve been, yeah. The AI trend has been one that we’ve been leading into for quite a while, but it’s like a never-ending exploration, and it is very complicated, and it’s hard. You want to make sure you do it right, and you do it justice. Yeah, because if you do it wrong, it’s a whole trail of events that occur that…

Absolutely. There’s a lot of trust that our customers put into us in terms of the caliber of the data and what it’s indicating. So to make sure that the tools and products we create are ones that our customer base can trust is a huge element.

Anything else you’d like to add or anything else that you’re seeing? I mean, I think the biggest thing is remembering that we’re operating from a position of strength because it’s so easy to forget that less than a decade ago, the dominant retail narrative was stores are dying, people hate shopping, we’re going to order everything to our house. And now we’re seeing almost the exact opposite. It doesn’t mean e-commerce isn’t amazing. It just means this conception of a zero-sum game in retail is false. And so many channels are important to creating that ideal experience. embrace that holistic view, the better the retail experience we’re going to create. Yeah, I definitely think going to the direction of the connected store and really connecting all those pieces is definitely what consumers are looking for. And if you think about the younger generation…

So Gen Alpha and Gen Z, they’re used to this instantaneous information at their fingertips. They don’t even want to search for information or search for things. They want everything immediately given to them. And that’s only going to escalate as time goes by. So whatever, we can do real time to make sure we’re meeting the needs of that consumer in the moment of the shopping experience. Right?

Well thanks for being here today. great having you. my gosh. So, place your AI. Thank you.

And see. Nice.

Hi, Shelley Cohen here. so excited to have Jay Hakami here, CEO and founder of Skypad with me in person. I’m so excited. so much for having me. It’s a pleasure. Absolutely. So we’re here at the NRF show in the Javits Center. And wow, AI is everywhere. Everywhere, Those two letters. Agentic AI is actually picking up very large. I mean, you know, we’re in the data field.

So for us, initially AI was a search engine, you to be able to search faster, get information faster. But with Gentic, now you can do predictive. Now you can give assortments. Now you can do recommendations, which is a lot more interesting because now data talks to data and the results come out. So it makes it a lot more interesting than just another search engine, which is amazing by itself because, know, today you type in a few words and you get the answers you want.

which is kind of supersedes kind of Google on steroids, if will. But with agent thinking, moving to a different field where data speaks to data and results come out. it’s amazing for us, especially as a company that deals with data all day long, between retailers and brands, we see it as a huge opportunity for us in the marketplace. know that you have been working with data analytics for, I don’t know, decades, probably. 25 years. 25 years. Decades.

And I really am interested in hearing from you. for me, and now I’m a retailer, I’m not a data person. And I do understand retail tech, but not at the level you understand it. And when I look back at the past few years, I saw kind of this kind of slow tech, tech, tech, then five years ago, it got very fast. Today, I feel like I read something today, or I look at something today, and tomorrow it’s different.

Talk to me a little bit about the speed to which it’s changing and what you guys are doing to kind of stay on top of everything. Well, it seems that the retail merchandisers, specifically in the merchant side, they used to do things based on gut and feel, right? You touch. You want to see. But what’s happening as we progress in the years, it’s about the data. It’s about trends. It’s about looking at data and trying to predict what’s going to happen later on.

Joanna Hollern (02:24.782)
So I think we kind of stumble into this space, but it’s actually a great space to be in because the look and feel is still there, but the data confirms it or makes a change in decision making. So over the years, you’ve seen companies, retailers and brand innovating, continuously deploying different technologies to improve their business. And that trend will continue, especially with AI. is a huge change.

It’s much bigger than the internet back in the day when that started. So you’re going to see a major changes where actually companies, retails and brands are going to be more technology companies than merchants. I know, right? In a way, in a way. Did you, so today the CEO of Google was talking about like we’re right now in this most transformative place ever in the history of retail.

No doubt. So what’s your take on that? Well, there’s no doubt. I you’ve seen all the dynamics happening in retail today all over the place. And I think with the new tools that are coming to the market, especially with AI, AI-Gentic, there’s going to be a humongous change. You’re going to see the conversation is going to be more about technology, data, insights, predictive, than it’s going to be more on the human touch, which is kind of a shame in many ways.

but it kind of confirms one another because you still need the human feel to do what you do. But I think the data kind of confirms it. So I think, you know, what what Google is saying is now we’re coming up with tools that enable you to do from imaging to to data, data management, things in retail that they never did before. a company like Google or Microsoft or any other big players to do this, it shows the movement.

moving more into technology than the human touch. Yeah. So Skypad, tell me, if you could tell us illustrative examples of how you’re using agentic AI or AI, what’s different today than was even last year? What are you seeing in the future? Well, when we started the business back, well, Sky IT group has been around for 25 years, and I did say that before, but Skypad has been around for 18 years.

Joanna Hollern (04:46.879)
Initially, we were started as a data collection company, collecting data from the retailer, aligning it with the brand style information, and then providing insights. Today, with AI and AI-Gentic, what we’re doing is we’re getting into the predictive side. We’re going into the planning and allocation based on AI. We’re doing dynamic AI development with dams, with digital marketing assets.

We’re doing things that we never did before. We dabbled a little bit back in the day with machine learning, which is, know, but I tell you, we were not successful. was too technological to do what we wanted to do. With AI, we can do it in an enormous amount of speed, launch it quickly, and show results almost immediately. So we’re excited about what we’re developing.

a slew of products coming out with AI. And one of them, we just launched here at the show, which is basically just type what do you want to know? And it gives you the answer, gives it to you statistically in graphs in any way you want to see. So you don’t have to click and point anymore. You can actually ask the question, which is already an AI enabled platform. But there’s a lot more in the background that we can do with data talks and data and gives you, oh, you sold that red over there in this time frame.

Maybe you should consider adding more inventory to that place or reduce the green because it’s not selling in one location and doing fantastic in another location and giving the merchant the insights to make decisions much faster. just to give you just so I understand this. So you’re saying that today a merchant or a brand can say, OK, tell me where are my 10 best wide leg jean pants stores selling and what colors the top and boom.

Well, we can do that today. That’s easy. that’s easy. Yeah, we’re doing that today because we’re collecting data from the retailer. We are aligning it with the the information we get from the brand. We’re putting it together so the brand can actually make a decision what’s selling, what’s not selling by geographies, by product attributes and by time dimension. But today with agentic AI, what you’re going to see is basically telling you, this information, this this product is going to be selling very well.

Joanna Hollern (07:12.097)
based on these parameter in this location. So future sales. Future sales. Predictive. Predictive. We’re looking at the rear view mirror. AI is giving us the that’s amazing. That’s what we are so excited about AI and agentic AI. So you’re basically, you’re essentially setting up buyers and planners for absolute success.

because you’re telling them ahead of time what’s actually going to With one version of the truth. But don’t forget, we’ve got the buyer and the seller looking at the same platform, looking at the same analytics, the same projections, and they’re coming up with the same result. They don’t have to have a dialogue about it. They have that information readily available today with agentic AI. And that’s the real key. And the beauty about a company like us is that AI without data is like glass water with no water, right?

So we have all the data, just a question of how do we treat it? How do we combine it? How do we manipulate it? How do we get to the results, the end results we want to get? And that’s the beauty about what’s happening in SkyPad today with AI. That’s very exciting. And I know that you said predictive analytics. You’re very excited about predictive analytics. What else excites you about AI or agentic AI? Well, I’ll tell you everything. Our development right now is

80 to 95 to 95 % AI. We’re not doing any pure development like we used to do before. It took us a long time to come up with a product. By the time we scoped it, developed it, tested it, today with AI that process is much faster. We can come up with solution like planning or market prep. These type of solutions, we can come up with two, three months ready to launch to the customer. And we will be

introducing that in the next couple of months, the next couple of quarters to our customer base. That’s amazing. So the cycle from idea to launch is so short. It could take weeks, could take months, but it’s not going to take years. And that’s the beauty about technology company doing the things that they’re doing with AI. Especially because you work a lot of collaborations and partnerships with the actual brands.

It’s not like your technology company out there. Believe me, we don’t. We don’t develop anything on what we think we need to develop. We we sit with the brands. We talk to the retailers. We get insights before we do anything. I learned that the hard way, by the way, I was sitting in the side with I was saying, oh, let’s develop this and this. No, no, no, not anymore. We talk to the customer. We see what the demand are. And people saying to us, we would love just to type in a question. Give me just type in a speaker. I want my CEO to use this.

Type in a question, how was my low heel shoes during South Dakota? Give me the answer, give me the chart. How did it do in September versus October? Give me the information. I don’t want to click and point anymore. Going away from that, it’s a question. So even with voice, you can do it with voice. You can do it on your cell. Okay, you can go to the merchant, to the retail and ask the question on your cell and get the answer. Here’s the answer right here. So these are the things that you’re gonna see with AI and agentic AI. We’re super excited.

I cannot stop talking about it because it’s just such a huge change from the traditional way of doing things to the do it. I mean, it’s so fast. It’s so easy. It’s so just amazing. I love that. And I love the fact that you actually went and asked your brands what they’re looking for. And if you think about the workforce and the young people that are coming into the workforce, so now they’re growing up and they’re coming out of an age where they’re used to

talking into chat GPT and getting problems quickly solved. And so now they’re in the workforce. And so when it makes sense, that that’s what they’re expecting. Exactly. And quite frankly, when we develop SkyPad, it wasn’t developed for dinosaur like me. It developed for the new generation. so basically the new generation is accustomed to that, to talk to it and get an answer immediately. And the answer is to be immediate. And that’s the beauty about this whole thing. Now we’ve got the data, we’ve got the tools.

Now connect the tools to the data, bring the data out as fast as you can so you can respond to the requester. And that’s really the key. In our world, the requester could be the brand or it could be the retailer. Either one. You want to make sure the answer is the same for the same question. Of And that’s the key about AI and AI-Gentic is the fact that you need to have the data in the correct way to make sure the answer is correct. But otherwise, people are going to make mistakes. Of course.

business decisions are being made on the information we provide. So we’re very keen about what we do and how the information comes out. And it goes to a rigorous QA before we launch. We’re a little bit slow because we want to make sure it’s perfect when we go out. And so you talked, I just want to talk about the product life cycle. You talked about how that’s going to shorten greatly. So I grew up in the era, I’m not going to call myself a dinosaur, but.

I grew up in there was nine to months product life cycle. then, know, Zara hit the ceiling in H and so that became six weeks. So are we thinking less than six weeks now? Well, in our world, it could be. It could very well be. If you want to create a solution, for example, let’s talk about market per. We can actually develop it today based on the data we already have. We can develop in six to eight weeks.

we can launch it in, you know, in 10 weeks. So what I’m saying is that the cycle time and the fashion industry has been shortened considerably considerably. by the way, our development time is shortened as well. So we’re enabled to give the our consumer a much faster technology to be used to accommodate their shortened life cycle on the supply chain. So let’s talk about the

ultimate consumer out there and they’re using and use cases because I feel like everything we do whether you’re working with a brand or you’re working with a retailer that all goes back to the consumer. Do you have any insights about? I’m a big, big believer, big believer that the retailers should be treating the consumer as well as they’re treating their brands. I think and we have a lot of stories about this right now as we speak.

but the brands are their partners. And if we don’t have this hub that provides information to both sides and sharing of information from both sides, the ultimate loser is by the way, is the consumer. Of course. Because all of a sudden you have sizes nobody wants or colors nobody wants in a specific location. So the dialogue between the retail and the brand is so, important. As much in my opinion is important as the dialogue.

between the retailer and their consumer. And these are the things that I think most retailers are realizing today. You cannot ignore your brands. You need to talk to them, discuss based on information, based on data, based on insight, based on trends, how things are moving or not moving, and then make decisions. And these are the things that I think the retail is beginning to understand, that it cannot be a siloed situation where they’re only addressing the consumer. need to address the brand as

I love that. And you’re so right, because it all goes back to the consumer at the end of the day. At the end of the day, the consumer, because the consumer wants to come in, they want to make sure they’ve got what they need at the right place at the right time. And if you don’t have these insights, you’re to come to a store and you only have red and you don’t want red. You want the blue. you will. By the way, if you have the red that size four, not the one you thought. So all these things are going to be addressed much faster when you’ve got.

AI embedded into your platform. And Jay, I have to give you high five and lots of recognition, because I know you do a lot of work with students. We do. And you know, I have a personal passion of educating students and helping students understand the next wave of retail. So I want to thank you for all the work that you’re doing with students. Absolutely. We love it. Naomi, one of your professors came in and said, you know, we would like to bring your students to your facility. More than welcome. We’re across the street from FIT.

So I think that’s becoming a trend and hopefully we’ll get our product into your faculty as well. think that, you know, SkyPad and actually in Europe as well is becoming a tool that schools, fashion schools are beginning to show and teach. And I think that’s a big benefit. And I appreciate the fact that you’re endorsing us in that way, but we love having the students. think they’re bright. And this is the future at the end of the day. You know, we need to have that future come up.

There are future merchandisers, future CEOs, VP and SVPs of the industry. And if we don’t teach them now, and if we don’t do it, who’s going to do it? That’s right. And I think you’re right, because I think with students, you said something early on, and that is you have to get, we have to have young people that are students playing with the AI. No doubt. They have to start to understand it. You can’t just say,

you know, no, no, no. And then they come on the industry and they don’t know what to do. So I mean, if I had one advice for young students is jump into Gemini, jump into Copilot, jump into Chia GPT, the slew of tools out there that can actually educate you about AI. Because once you go to the workplace, the first question you’re going to be asked is after, you know, after a few questions is, what have you done in AI? Have you played with any of the tools? Have you learned about it?

So you need to be able to really mention some of the things you’ve done in AI. I think it’s key. I love it. That’s great. Any closing thoughts for us? Well, look, I’m a big fan of FIT, as you know that. We have, I think we have about seven or eight, if not more, folks that came from FIT. we love the people that come in. Many of them are coming as interns. And today, some of them are managing big projects for us.

across the globe with SkyPad We have over 3,000 subscribers and a very vast network of retailers in the US and abroad that we support. And the talent you produce is amazing. Thank you. you. But again, getting back to the education, really gear up on AI because it’s not going away. It’s not a fad. Well, thank you so much for all the work that you do and for making our merchandisers and allocators in our

industry being you know giving them the tools to be much better at what well we do it with love so thank you so much thank you.

my gosh, I’m so excited. We’re here at the N.R.F. show, Retail Unwrapped, and we’re in person. All right. It’s great. George, I have George Shaw here, who is the Senior Vice President of Standard AIs. AI Strategy. AI Strategy. That’s kind of a tough question, That’s right. So welcome. It’s great to have you. Thanks for having me. It’s always a pleasure, Awesome. So I’m dying to hear what you’ve been up to, what’s going on, and tell me what you’re seeing at the N.R.F. show.

Wow, so a lot’s been going on. ⁓ My company, Path Air, was acquired by Standard AI. That’s awesome. We announced that on Friday. Like Friday? Just now. my God, that’s great. Yep. So I’ve had a new job for about a week. It’s going great so far. I love it. It’s fantastic. Standard is an awesome company. They came out of Autonomous Checkout. So they built a lot of fantastic technology in order to solve that. And now they’ve pivoted into analytics, which is really my wheelhouse, stuff that I love. So it’s a really, really nice fit. And we’re going to figure out how to scale.

computer vision and analytics. I love that. So tell me a little about, so I’ve heard a lot about AI, GenQ AI and computer vision. what I’d love for you to tell us a little bit about is what is computer vision in today’s retail world? What does that look like? So now the, one of the big trends that’s happening now is using existing cameras. Retailers had the, had the insight and, and I want to say companies like Path or my old company helped to, helped to educate them in this, but they could use their existing cameras.

Instead of having to install a bunch of new cameras in order to see what their shoppers were doing, use the cameras that already there, because the science came forward. So the computer vision technology, the software made it so that we could use the security cameras they’ve already got. So think that’s the biggest trend. We see a lot of that. A bunch of companies that are working on doing that. ⁓ And retailers are starting to understand also the value of that data. What can you do with computer vision? Exactly. What are you doing with computer vision in that store environment?

There’s lots of different things you can do with computer vision. What Standard mostly does and what Pather did was to track people as they move through the space, anonymously. So we use the security camera, we take that feed and we turn people into dots moving around a map. Pather, had one dot. Standard has 26 dots that represent a person. What that means is we know where your arms are, so we know if you’re reaching out to touch a product. We know which way your head is pointing, so we know where you’re looking. If you’re looking at a media screen, for example.

we can tell that you’re looking at that screen rather than just standing in front of it with your back to it or something like that. So this is something that computer vision has been used for for a while. ⁓ There are other purposes for computer vision as well, looking at products and all sorts of other things, but that’s what we do. That’s great. So you’re monitoring the path of the shopper as they’re in the store, reaching, you know, if they’re bending, standing up, looking at something, all of that. That’s right. What’s the ultimate goal? What are you going to do with all that information?

So every retailer sort of has a different use for that. They all have some different metric or some different thing that they want to learn, something else that they want to understand depending on their particular environment. ⁓ Luxury retailers, for example, they want to know a lot more about the interaction between their staff and customers. How long is it until somebody’s greeted? How long does the staff spend with the customer? Is their selling behavior happening? Does it lead to a transaction? Things like that. Specialty retailer, similar. lot of retailers want to understand the shopping journey.

So when I come in, where do I go? What products do I look at and not buy? What do I ultimately buy? What does that behavior look like across different shelves and fixtures? This happens in beauty, happens in apparel, even in grocery. They want to know about that full shopping journey. But also retailers wanting to know where people are focusing their attention. So for media, that’s one that’s really important to us right now is measuring in-store media and being able to do that in a way that’s accurate.

Again, if you have your back to the screen or you’re on your phone, you’re not actually, you shouldn’t be counted as an impression. You didn’t actually see that ad. But if you’re there watching the ad, that’s an impression. So this is something that retailers are starting to measure more as we see a lot more in-store media happening. Yeah, the retail media networks is just growing so big and it’s now, when you walk into a store, it’s everywhere. So I can see how that can be beneficial. Are you able to connect the KPI? So let’s go back to your example in London.

So you have this interaction of an associate. Can you then look at the KPIs that came out of that? Like the sales, know, what the, know, UPT or average transaction, all of that. Yeah, yeah, always tie all the metrics that we would collect to the things that ultimately the retailers care about that affect their bottom line. So whether that’s the, you know, the selling behavior of the staff or how people are shopping. Queues is another big one. Monitor queues and help retailers to keep the queues short. If nobody wants to wait in the long line, that’s a, that,

affects conversion that affects ATV. So they’re looking at those metrics in relation to things like queue or engagement with staff and so on. That’s exciting. So tell me, what do you have on tap for 2026? What are you guys kind of focusing a lot of the development side on software wise? This is the year to scale computer vision. I really believe that. been doing this for a long time and I think now is the time. And the reason is because we’ve got much deeper technology than we have.

We’ve got much better data, it’s more granular, it’s much more accurate. And to do autonomous checkout, you have to be 100 % accurate. You never make a mistake, right? And so the analytics are extremely accurate. But then what we’ve also done is prove that we could scale that kind of technology. And so those two things are coming together, chocolate and peanut butter are coming together. And it’s looking really good for this year to be able to scale this really powerful deep tech. I know that. And when you say autonomous checkout, you’re talking about self-checkout.

So like Amazon Go or just walk out. That’s where you really you think that’s going to grow bigger this year? No, I think I think I think that is sort of ⁓ sort of maybe leveled off. ⁓ But a lot of those companies that were doing that are now pivoting into analytics and more operational analytics, you know, selling behavior and just sort of analytics that I’ve always worked on. No, that’s great. That’s great. And so when you look back on the past year, I know you’ve been looking at consumer data for a long time.

What consumer behavior changes have you seen that you think retailers would be most interested going into the future? Ooh, that’s a good one. That’s a good one. ⁓ We see a lot more engagement. So people are coming into stores and wanting to interact more with staff. ⁓ think that speaks a lot to why people shop in physical stores in the first place. We want to see people. We want to touch the products and there are other reasons, of course, but we really want to interact with people. And so I think we see that in the metrics that we collect. We see more of that.

see retailers caring a lot more about that. It’s a question we get a lot more than we were before. So think that’s one of the trends that I’m seeing at least. No, that’s great. So what else do you want to talk about in terms of what’s happening at Standard AI? are you excited about? What keeps you up at night? You know, I’m excited about all this tech. I’m a nerd. I’m really into the technology that they’ve built and that I now get to enjoy continuing to develop a bunch of really cool stuff that we do.

We can measure the total time somebody spent in store. Even in a huge store, even with just a single camera, we’re able to do that. We’re able to, again, understand media impressions, all these different metrics. I won’t give you a laundry list of all the metrics, but there’s a lot of really interesting metrics that we could collect. I’m super excited about that. What keeps me up at night is whether we can do this at the scale that we want to do it. Whether we can deploy that sort of tech to the thousands, tens of thousands of locations that we’re chasing after. Yeah, the details is it.

The devil’s in the details. The devil’s in the details. right. Exactly. So I think a lot of retailers get overwhelmed with the amount of details and the amount of data. how do you suggest retailers kind of unify that view so that they can actually make quick decisions? I really feel a lot of that is the responsibility of companies like ours.

I think we have to simplify the whole process and we have work to do. It’s not there yet, but we have to simplify the process of deploying the technology to make it faster. We have to make it easier to get the tech out there. And then we have to make the data more useful. Retailers don’t want a bunch of dots moving around maps. Even heat maps are of limited usefulness. They want the metrics that they actually care about. So that’s up to companies like us to figure that out.

Give them a very simple, clean, clear dashboard that you can use operationally at scale. I feel like most of that is on us. In real time, right? In real time. We want everything real time. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, again, while you’re doing autonomous checkout, you have to operate in real time too. So our system is super efficient, super fast. That’s great. Anything else you want to share? No, I think that’s it. I really appreciate you having me on. Absolutely. I’m excited. excited to see what you guys are going to be doing this year. I’m going to be watching you.

and saying all kinds of cool things that you’re putting out there. Because I know you’re trying to retailers really understand data in a measurable way. Absolutely. We want to help them just be better retailers so that we can all have a better shopping experience when we go into the store. Exactly. And give them data to do that. Awesome. Well, thanks so much for being here. Thanks again, Shelley.

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Here’s What Happens When Your Customers Design Your Clothes https://therobinreport.com/heres-what-happens-when-your-customers-design-your-clothes/ Fri, 02 Jan 2026 05:01:00 +0000 https://therobinreport.com/?p=116630 Retail Unwrapped Podcast ArtJoin Shelley and Eric Girouard who discuss how he built his BRUNT Workwear brand with the people who actually wear the work gear.  They reveal how BRUNT was launched by childhood friends brought up in a blue-collar manufacturing town.]]> Retail Unwrapped Podcast Art

Here’s an interesting fact: 1.6 million tradespeople trust their friends over impersonal brands. And here’s why: Most workwear brands claim they understand their customers, but they’re designing products by committee in the boardroom and based on their P/L.  Join Shelley and Eric Girouard who discuss how he built his BRUNT Workwear brand with the people who actually wear the work gear. They reveal how BRUNT was launched with the encouragement of childhood friends who were brought up in a blue-collar manufacturing town. Unlike Eric and his colleagues, the workwear industry has forgotten who it serves and would be better served by paying attention to what happens when customers help design their own products.  BRUNT eliminated PFAS from water-resistant fabrics before regulations required it, positioning the brand ahead of market demands while legacy competitors are still scrambling to reformulate. BRUNT stays close to its customers, outfitting the New England Patriots field crew this season, partnering with unique talent like Diesel Dave who tricks out trucks and professional motocross athlete Travis Pastrana. It’s also a mainstay in rally racing, NASCAR, and automotive stunt performance. BRUNT’s Bucket Talk is “a monthly podcast that takes listeners across America to meet the “most badass tradespeople, industry leaders and personalities.” Growing from an initial 110 stores to 858 doors nationwide while maintaining its brand integrity proves that authentic products are relevant and can scale when you understand your local communities and customers.

Special Guests

Eric Girouard, Founder + CEO at BRUNT Workwear

Shelley E. Kohan (00:01.826)
Hi everybody, and thanks for joining our weekly podcast. I’m Shelley Cohen, and I’m very excited to welcome Eric Gerard, founder and CEO of Brunt Workwear. Welcome, Eric.

Eric Girouard (00:13.928)
Thank you for having me, Shelly. I appreciate it.

Shelley E. Kohan (00:16.66)
Absolutely. So I actually am going to start off with a fun little story that you are going to love. So a week ago, it’s pouring down rain in New York City and the dog has to be walked. And my husband says, I don’t have any good rain boots to walk the dog in. And I said, I know the perfect boot for you. I know it’s a great boot because it sold a million already. And so I went online and I got him a Marlin.

Eric Girouard (00:42.825)
Yep.

Shelley E. Kohan (00:46.21)
boot from brunt. So.

Eric Girouard (00:48.5)
Appreciate the support, that means a lot.

Shelley E. Kohan (00:51.176)
Absolutely. So I’m excited because I think you have a great brand and I always love great brands. But what I love better than great brands is the story behind the brand. you actually started Brunt. Tell us a little bit about the brand and then tell us how you actually started the brand with your childhood buddies. How did that come about?

Eric Girouard (01:11.72)
Yeah, it was a pretty, pretty organic story. I had grown up with my childhood buddies in a small blue collar town where our parents worked at least one blue collar job, a couple of them two blue collar jobs. My dad worked third shift and then we’d roof during the day. And so it’s kind of all we knew. I happen to have a knack for business and was.

didn’t have formal training, and even though my parents didn’t go to college, they were like, maybe you should go and get some foundational stuff. And I ended up going off to college. All my buddies went right into the trades or the military, for the most part, right out of high school. But we stayed really close. And,

I spent about 10 years working for a serial entrepreneur, which was great training. And finally, after 10, 12 years, my buddies and I were at my bachelor party. And they said, why don’t you start a brand for us? You’re doing all this stuff in kind of fashion and coffee and shoes. And I said, well, what would that be? They said, well, we wear the same work boots, the same pants that our fathers did, our grandfathers did. How about a new modern?

workwear brand that looks like we look and talks like we talk and that was where the idea came in 2015 and three years later in 2018 I finally decided to leave my job and start start building grunt.

Shelley E. Kohan (02:34.574)
I love that. And what I love about the story is, and I’m sure you know this story already, so you’re creating a brand by people that actually are gonna be using the products. And Levi, that’s how Levi invented the first gene is that the founder would go out and look at the gold miners and take notes about what they were doing. they needed a tool in the pocket. They needed this, they needed that. So it kind of throws me back to

Eric Girouard (03:01.363)
Love that.

Shelley E. Kohan (03:03.33)
You know, you’re making something and building something for something you know about and your childhood buddies, I’m sure, gave you lots of feedback. In fact, I think a lot of your products are named after them. Is that correct?

Eric Girouard (03:13.885)
Correct. Yeah, yeah. It’s a very unique situation. Obviously, getting the business off the ground, made a ton of mistakes along the way. I’d say there’s two things that we did right that it kind of fundamentally changed the trajectory of the business. The first was from a brand perspective.

My buddies didn’t have training on how to build a brand and so on and so forth, but they understood what they wanted and what they felt and what they believed in and so on and so forth. And so I worked really closely with them when I was working on the actual brand itself, our identity and our being and what we stood for. On the phone with them asking very pointed questions, does this get you excited? I knew if it got me excited, it didn’t get them excited. Didn’t matter because they’re out in the field all day long. If it got them excited, then I knew it was a winner.

They helped, they helped really create the brand and, um, and the whole goal of we wanted our product to bear the brunt of the workday for them and our boots to bear the brunt of the workday and now our apparel. And then the second thing was the product, the first four products that we launched, the first four boots. I, at that point had been on the trades for 10 plus years. I hadn’t been wearing work boots 40, 50 hours a week. Times had changed. Technology had changed. So I worked really closely with those guys, Matt Maron, Dan Bolduck, Skyler Ring, Jeremy Perkins.

They create the Marin, the Perkins, the Bulldog, the Ring, and they gave me the most detailed feedback imaginable from what they did for their specific trade to create those first four boots. And those four boots are still all in the line today.

Shelley E. Kohan (04:47.413)
I love that. I think that’s great. And the other thing that’s interesting about the design process is that, okay, so I saw your video. I love the fact that you put videos on your website that explain the design process because I think as consumers today, it’s important for them to understand the story, the brand, you know. And so I watched your fantastic video on the Chevlyn hoodie and the whole design process fascinated me. So can you talk a little bit about that? And also,

Eric Girouard (05:10.695)
Yes.

Shelley E. Kohan (05:17.279)
I think you’re very forward thinking because you designed that PFAS free. So tell us a little bit about how that came about too.

Eric Girouard (05:22.407)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so when we knew we were going to enter the apparel market early in our life cycle, but we knew we couldn’t just slap a logo on another sweatshirt and it had to be different. It had to bring some type of value to the consumer. so similarly, we started from the ground floor and started looking at sweatshirts. I remember looking at some of my buddy’s sweatshirts where they were breaking down, where they were ripping, where they were tearing, what was happening. And from the every

every stitch, every seam, every feature, every functionality is completely purpose-built and we took

what could have easily been just a generic hoodie and really ramped it up. It’s got a big, you know, from the fabric, which is PFAS free. has DWR in it, so water will beat off to keep them dry in the snow and the rain, but it’s also PFAS free, which is hard to accomplish. And the market’s been moving there over the past few years and in the future it’s going to be required. So we figured let’s just jump to the end point and do it earlier than most. And so obviously a lot of people appreciate the PFAS free for those that understand what that means.

you

Eric Girouard (06:32.499)
So that’s that. And then the hood, oversized hood, it’s hard hat compatible, can go over a hard hat if needed, over a hat. No drawstrings. So drawstrings are dangerous on a lot of job sites. They can get sucked into tools and circular saws. And so it has neck snaps instead. So it can be snapped up right underneath the chin and to basically kind of turn into a turtleneck on those really cold days. Left unsnapped when you don’t need it. And then a very large oversized belly pocket that has a cell phone holder in the inside.

That’s a good example of like normally people put the cell, if they put a cell phone holder and they put it sideways and then the phone kind of falls sideways, we angled it so that it couldn’t fall out. And then we put catch corners in the bottom corner. So guys have nuts or bolts or you change or screws floating around in the bottom of the sweatshirt. It doesn’t fall out of the left to the right. And so every feature, every functionality has to have a purpose for us to put into our product. we’ve sold hundreds of thousands of the Chevrolet hoodie.

people that get it just absolutely love it.

Shelley E. Kohan (07:33.133)
It’s a very mindful design process, which is what I love about it. And I have to imagine with all this do it yourself, working at home stuff. mean, those are great, great examples of why the secondary market, I know your markets really tradesmen, but there’s a secondary market of people that are doing jobs at home. And you just mentioned like six safety features that people working at home should be thinking about.

Eric Girouard (07:48.231)
Yeah.

Eric Girouard (07:53.735)
Yeah.

Yeah. And the core difference there is we’re happy to serve either customer is the hardcore tradesman that’s out there five days, know, five, six days a week, 40, 50 hours. They’ll probably go through one or two sweatshirts a year, whereas the DIY kind of weekend person that might last them three, four years. It’s just the extended life of it, which is the benefit, I guess. So, yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (08:17.345)
That’s great. OK, so the work where landscape has actually changed. We’re actually seeing growth in trade workers in the US. I think there’s over 30 million trade workers now. And you kind of mentioned something I’ve read in the past about Gen Z’s becoming the quote unquote tool belt generation. Can you talk a little bit about this new generation that’s kind of your target market?

Eric Girouard (08:42.055)
Yeah, so obviously the whole US market’s got about 30 million folks that work in these trade slash blue collar jobs, however you define them, and the Bureau of Labor Statistics actually classifies these things. what’s unique is…

Two things are happening. The amount of Gen Z that is applying to trade schools is up 20 % year over year. It used to be pretty flat, sometimes down. really this past year. It’s been up 20%. So it shows you a lot of the younger folks of the Gen Z population are actually raising their hand and saying they want to go to these trade schools. And it’s a unique.

you can be good or you can be lucky. Five years ago when we started Brunt, we didn’t see this coming and we just kind of got lucky that this is happening. But you see the investment from the government into construction and infrastructure into the country. That money means there’s going to be projects. Those projects need people to build them and bring them to life and build the buildings that we work in, the houses we sleep in, the roads we drive in, the electrical that powers everything. And so there’s more demand for that.

type of skill and work that’s out there. think that Gen Z population is starting to realize, wow, this could actually be not only potentially lucrative and create a lot of success, but also a lot of flexibility and freedom and entrepreneurship. If that’s the path they want to go down, they can choose when they want to work. They could work their own hours. There’s a lot of freedom that comes along with that. And I think they’re starting to realize that. so yeah, we’re just happy to be here to kind of…

be the brand that’s supporting that generation that obviously they’re loving by the droves and the fact that the kind of wind is behind our sails. We’re grateful for but I can’t say we strategically planned that five, six years ago.

Shelley E. Kohan (10:37.922)
Well, here’s some more good news. think Gen Alpha, which enters the workforce, I believe next year, like it’s crazy that Gen Alpha is already coming in the workforce. But the Gen Alphas are going to have that same kind of mentality of really wanting to work with their hands, with the trades. And I think it’s a great sense of feeling of contribution.

Eric Girouard (10:46.696)
Right.

Eric Girouard (10:59.997)
Right, right, exactly. Yeah, and it’s interesting because…

You know, as I was as I was growing up, definitely my father’s generation, but as I was growing up, especially with my buddies that I sort of the brain with, there was kind of the trades were if you don’t go to college, you go into the trades. And it was kind of somewhat looked down upon. And what’s really happened recently and it’s been kind of Brun’s, you know, unspoken mission is to really shine a light on the positive side of the trades, the success factors, the

all the benefits that come along with it. And I think that you’re starting to see that shift, generational shift where people are like, whoa, why would I go to, you know, rack up $100,000 of debt and go to school? I’m not really sure exactly what I want to do yet in life. How about I go right into the trades? can make really good money, so on, so forth. And so I think people that there’s a perception and a stigma that’s starting to finally change in a positive way.

Shelley E. Kohan (11:59.915)
It’s great and I’ll tell you a quick story. One is my son who’s choosing the college route said to me I do not want any debt coming out of college So I have to pick a college that I will have zero debt and three of his friends are actually going the trades Worker route and so what nice what high schools are doing now. I don’t know if you know this but at least in some of the New York schools that the actual high schools now have classes you take to learn to be the trade in

Eric Girouard (12:15.933)
Yep, yep.

Shelley E. Kohan (12:29.684)
in high school. So they leave the high school, they go to a facility, a vocational school, and they’re learning different types of trades. So it’s fantastic. So when they graduate high school, they’ve already been trained and they’ve docked some work hours. So I think you’re going to see growth in this as well.

Eric Girouard (12:30.974)
that’s great.

Eric Girouard (12:37.575)
Yeah.

Eric Girouard (12:43.495)
Yeah, that’s great. Yeah, that’s fantastic. Love to hear that.

Shelley E. Kohan (12:48.706)
So let’s switch over to marketing. Did you go to school for marketing by any chance?

Eric Girouard (12:52.623)
So I went to a very, this business school I went to is up here in New England, very small business school called Babson and it’s, you really only, yeah, Babson College, yes. So you really lead there. They don’t have, you leave with a bachelor’s of science in entrepreneurship. So it’s pretty general. Obviously marketing is a key component of entrepreneurship, but marketing is kind of my, if I had to do one thing in life, I’d say I’m a marketer at my core.

Shelley E. Kohan (13:00.719)
I know Babson. Yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (13:10.797)
Yeah. Okay.

Shelley E. Kohan (13:20.75)
Oh my God. And so the reason I asked you if you went to school for it, but now it’s just innate within you, I’m learning, is that the marketing you’re doing is crazy. It’s kind of like a different playbook for a new brand coming into the marketplace. So I’d love for you to talk a little bit about, although I’m going to be transparent and honest, I am not a Patriots fan. I’m a Steelers fan, but I love the fact that you’re from New England.

Eric Girouard (13:31.112)
Mm-hmm.

Shelley E. Kohan (13:47.011)
and you are supporting the patrons. Tell us a little bit how all that came about because it matches perfectly with your brand ethos.

Eric Girouard (13:54.996)
Yeah, the first few years we weren’t able to partner with NFL league level teams and things of that nature. And we had a very different playbook. This was the first year the business got to a size where we were able to even entertain those conversations.

Eric Girouard (14:35.571)
That’s really representative of Brunt, those guys that are out there on the field crew in the snow, in the rain, in the heat, in the summer, just putting in the work, making sure those players can have a top tier field to play on. And the conversation quickly shifted to we want to actually sponsor the Gillette Stadium field crew team. And yeah, and here we are. We are an official sponsor of the New England Patriots, Gillette Stadium, and then obviously the Gillette Stadium field crew.

Shelley E. Kohan (14:42.638)
Shelley E. Kohan (14:56.397)
I love it.

Eric Girouard (15:05.491)
about nine or so folks that were.

Shelley E. Kohan (15:09.058)
I love that. That’s fantastic. And I know you have work, you’re doing some stuff with the Bruins and some NASCAR stuff and motocross, right?

Eric Girouard (15:15.963)
Yeah. Yeah. So we have a big partnerships consortium of folks. And obviously there’s the New England Patriots, there’s the Bruins through the TD Garda Bull Gang. Some of the folks that flipped the court to ice and ice back to court during the night. And then we’re in NASCAR, we’re in Snowcross. We have partnerships with folks that we know our customer really loves and enjoys following on social media like Travis Pastrana.

Seroni, Hannah Baron, and so we’ve got this great group of partners. And we use that to amplify the Bernstein. We always tie it into what we do and how we do it, and the blue collar kind of trades work. And it’s been great for the business, for the brand, for the community, and the customers love it.

Shelley E. Kohan (16:05.862)
I know. I think it’s great that you’re doing all that work. you said something really important was community. as you know, consumers today, they really want brands that are contributing to the community. And you do that in a big way.

Eric Girouard (16:18.983)
Yes, yes, we do. We do what we can and as we grow we continue to do more, but our biggest initiative has been we’ve donated today. We have a boot donation program and we’ve donated.

Shelley E. Kohan (16:32.519)
No.

Eric Girouard (16:34.099)
Just a couple weeks ago, we donated our 20,000th pair of boots to students at trade schools. And our goal is by 2030 to donate 100,000 pairs of boots to students in trade schools. And so it’s very, very unique. We partner with.

either the head of the trade school, sometimes called the principal, sometimes director, whatever it may be. We partner with them, we get the products delivered to them. If it’s in our area, we send someone from the company, whether it’s myself or other folks in the team, to talk to the students about.

right their futures are and so on and so forth. what’s even more shocking is a lot of the times these are these students’ first pair of actual work boots, safety rated work boots that they’ve ever had. And they’re actually in school learning the trades. And so it’s kind of a, we don’t ask for anything in return. We don’t know quid pro quo. just, I believe you put good out into the universe. It’ll come back to you in other ways.

Shelley E. Kohan (17:31.468)
Yeah, definitely. I think that’s great. And thanks for supporting students. I love that. So let’s let’s talk about holiday. We have talked about holiday. So I hear from the grapevine that you did like over three million dollars on Black Friday. And then over the course of the whole Black Friday weekend, it was very positive for you. The numbers I have are that you’re you did like over 15 million. So how’s holiday going for you?

Eric Girouard (17:35.335)
Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Girouard (17:49.768)
Yeah.

Eric Girouard (17:53.266)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, so this this holiday was interesting because of

because of what was going on in the macroeconomic, you know, kind of US at the time, right? And so we’re always from a brunt perspective, we always feel pretty safe and pretty comfortable because we’re not a discretionary purchase. People need work boots and work pants and work hoodies to do their job at the best of times and at the worst of times. And so when you see the economic shifts of, you know, some businesses, software businesses take off when things, you know, during COVID and others obviously

don’t do as well, we’re pretty stable. And so this is the first time going into holiday where we weren’t sure where the consumer sentiment was. There’s a lot of skepticism of what was going on. And so.

hunkered down we stayed disciplined, stayed focused and yeah it was our biggest holiday period ever from record-setting selling days to the number of products that we sold. We ended up actually selling more units of apparel than we did boots in that that period and so that’s the first time that’s ever happened for the business which just shows you how the growth of the apparel side of the business is going in.

Yeah, and it’s incredible. It was just incredible to see the team works all year for it. We start prepping for it. We have a lot of limited edition products that come in and sell out really quickly. And at the end of the day, we participate in a little bit of that holiday feeder, so to speak. we understand we serve a very important purpose. We’re getting people products that they need to do their jobs to keep them safe, to get home to their families at the end of the day. And so.

Eric Girouard (19:37.627)
have fun but we also understand the seriousness of the product that we make.

Shelley E. Kohan (19:44.692)
that’s amazing. I know that last year I believe you launched wholesale, correct?

Eric Girouard (19:49.716)
Correct, yeah, so we launched wholesale in February 15th of 2024, and because we were online for the first three years only, you you could go to bruntworkwear.com to buy our product, couldn’t get it anywhere else, so we wanted to launch in the physical retail world because…

About 65 to 70 % of customers that buy this product still like to go into a store to touch it, to feel it, to try it on, to smell the leather. And so we knew if we wanted to be the most dominant workwear brand in the next few years, we were going to have to be in that channel. Otherwise we were ignoring too many people. And so we launched.

Shelley E. Kohan (20:13.327)
Yeah, me too.

Shelley E. Kohan (20:22.873)
Mm-hmm.

Eric Girouard (20:25.875)
and tested in 110 stores with 20 different retailers that carried our product. And it absolutely, we had no idea how it was going to do. It absolutely exploded. We were sold out of most of our retail accounts within the first week. They wanted more inventory and we.

kind of caught a tiger by the tail and the team stabilized the business, got more inventory, the open up more accounts. We’re now in 858 doors across the country in every state and the business that holds the wholesale part of the business is growing 345 % this year. So it’s an absolute rocket ship. And we love it because our partners that carry our product, obviously they’re in their local communities. They’re in, you know, we’re in.

outside of Boston, they’re in California, in Texas, in Florida, in places that we can never cover that much ground for, and they’re able to service the customers the way they want.

Shelley E. Kohan (21:19.641)
Yeah.

That’s awesome. And can you just name some of the retailers? Like what type of retailers?

Eric Girouard (21:26.995)
Yeah, so there’s a couple different pockets. There’s the national retailers. I think of like, Shields, Boot Barn, come to mind.

So they have kind of a national presence. Then there’s the regional folks like whistle workwear and shoot area on the West Coast or super shoes in the East Coast. They cover a region of the country. Then there’s the farm and fleet channel Midwest. I think of Blaine’s farm and fleet. You can buy a tractor in your horse, your horse tranquilizer and brunt boots in the same store. There’s the independents that are really authentic. Like I think of Frank’s in Pittsburgh, they have just two stores

Shelley E. Kohan (22:01.731)
Yeah.

Eric Girouard (22:07.645)
but it’s the place you go if you live in Pittsburgh to get your workwear and your work boots. And then last but not least is the shoe truck mobiles. There’s this network of truck mobiles that have relationships with the biggest manufacturers in the country and they go there and service them and the employees are reimbursed. There’s kind of five different. They’re slightly different and it’s a little niche, yeah. yeah.

Shelley E. Kohan (22:28.783)
Love it, yeah.

that’s great. So what can we expect in 2026? Do you think you’re going to eventually open up a store, a physical store?

Eric Girouard (22:40.019)
So yeah, so we are working on, we just actually started actual construction yesterday on our first ever flagship store. Demo had happened over the past few weeks, but construction officially started yesterday morning. And the goal is it’s gonna be a mile from our headquarters so we can keep a.

pulse on it and it’s much as it’s gonna be our first flagship retail store, it’s gonna be an incredible experience and show the brand head to toe in its own environment. It’s also gonna be a great place for the employees and the team to really see the brand in the physical world and play with merchandising and how things fit together. And then I’d say third, it’s gonna be a really powerful place for the community. It’s right on Main Street in North Reading where we’re headquartered.

It’s a small town, small blue collar suburb, a lot of hardworking folks. We’re have a lot of events there and to kind of add a little bit of life to downtown Main Street that was a seafood restaurant that closed down a few years ago. So it was kind left behind and we are completely, we brought it down to the studs and are gonna build an incredible Brent branded experience.

Shelley E. Kohan (23:50.159)
Well, that’s great. Eric, you have to do me a favor. You have to invite me to the grand opening because I cannot wait to come and check out the store and see how you kind of merchandise everything together. I think that’s great. And I also want to thank you for serving over 1.6 million tradespeople in every state. So thank you for your contributions to the industry and all the work that you’re doing in the communities.

Eric Girouard (23:53.743)
I will. I would love to have you.

Eric Girouard (24:06.823)
Yes.

Eric Girouard (24:12.093)
Thank you. We appreciate it. We’re proud to do it.

Shelley E. Kohan (24:15.703)
And thanks for being here. Our listeners, I’m sure, are thrilled to hear your story. So thanks for being here today, especially during a busy time. So good luck with the rest of the year and good luck in 2026. I’m sure we’ll have you back.

Eric Girouard (24:27.38)
Thank you. Looking forward to it.

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